350mm Trident mods/redesign advice

[Stas_Robotmaker]

Hello everyone.
I am currently designing a "Super Trident" based on a Voron Trident 350mm.
The main differences from a normal Trident are full 3030 frame, XY motors outside of heated chamber, and bigger rails on axis Y and Z.
This is my first DIY 3D printer, so I'd like to ask some questions:

1. Which is the best X axis configuration for 350mm size, considering that Monolith gantry mod and Xol CPAP toolhead will be installed:

• 2020 extrusion (default)
• Custom aluminium beam by Mellow
• Carbon fiber tube by Mellow

Which one is the best for high enclosure temps (up to 80C)?
And which rail to use on X axis - MGN9H or MGN12H?

2. I really want to implement belted Z axis here. However traditional designs with 4:1-5:1 belted reducers will not hold a 8mm thick 350x350mm bed.
There are 3 potential ways to solve that:

• Nema 23 motors.
• Increased gear (pulley) ratio, for example using a 120T pulley instead of 80T.
• Planetary gearboxes (this mod).

Currently I am leaning towards 10:1 planetary gearboxes, as they are the cheapest solution with almost zero redesign required.
However, are there any noticeable drawbacks in terms of precision and reliability?

3. I already have some custom 60mm LDO 2804 motors. I'd like to power them with 60V through Bigtreetech TMC5160 Plus drivers. However I was unable to find any suitable 60V PSUs. Could anyone please provide a link for one?

4. As I'll have very low inductance motors powered by high voltage, this setup will allow for extremely high motor rotation speed. However I doubt I'll need anything faster than 600mm/s.
Would a 2:1 or 3:1 belted reducer on each of the XY motors provide any benefits?

5. What benefits does a watercooled hotend provide?
What is the max chamber temperature an aircooled one can withstand?

My hotend setup will most probably be:
CHC Pro with its standard heatbreak, heatsink and a fan (if aircooled)
CHC Pro with Chimera heatbreak and Goliath waterblock (if watercooled)

I've chosen the CHC Pro, as I've been using it for a long time on my Creality K1, and I really like its performance. The popular Rapido is basically a CHC Pro with V6 nozzles, for 3x the price.

 

[fionoz]

BUILD IT STOCK FIRST!
Seriously, please build it stock first. Then move onto mods. For your reference later on, here are some points.


For high temp chambers, the resin on the Mellow tube could potentially deform. An alternative is a square steel/aluminium tube that you drill into and add your nuts etc.

BTT 5160 are rated to a max of 60v, which can shorten their lifespan. The jump from 48v to 60v in most cases isn't worth it from what I have heard. Some guys in the LH Stinger server even run 36v on their TMC2240s since they have tried and tested 5160s with high voltages and found that the value just isn't there. But in your case, with 2804s, you will need 5160s.

Water cooled hotends technically suck some heat out of your chamber, but I have no experience with them. You would be better off asking in the #spicy-meatball channel in the Armchair engineering discord since they have more people running watercooled hotends.

 

[NoGuru]

1. 2020 Extrusion for tried and true longevity.
2.Belts will heat and stretch over time. Sounds like you want a high temp chamber, I would reconsider doing belts here.
3. Here is a 48v that I use with my 5160's https://www.amazon.com/MEAN-WELL-LRS-350-48-350-4W-Switchable
4. No idea
5. Water cooled hotend is better in heated chambers since it can trasnfer the temps better. Max temp a aircooled hotend can withstand has to many variables to answer. What chamber temp? For how long? What Fan? What size fan?

 

[vinnycordeiro]

• If you want to use a carbon fiber (fibre?) tube on a heated chamber, you need to pick one that uses a high temperature resin. Those are expensive.
• Empiric testing made by the community found out that LDO 2804 motors does NOT like higher voltages, but they work best at 24V with higher currents (more than 2A). If you really want to use 48V (do not use 60V, for our use case it doesn't give any benefits), go with LDO or OMC 2504 motors.
• Unless we are talking about over 100C chamber temperature with hotend going over 300C, there will be absolutely no benefit from using a watercooled hotend.
• And last, but not least: discussions about active chamber heating are forbidden on the Discord server and on this forum: https://forum.vorondesign.com/help/terms/

 

[Stas_Robotmaker]

Thanks a lot everyone. I'll probably stick with 48V, aircooled hotend and a 2020 extrusion for X axis.
Which rail size would you recommend for X - MGN9 or MGN12?

 

[NoGuru]

I would do MGN12 since most hotends are now designed around that size.

 

[120decibell]

XY motors outside of heated chamber

Your post has multiple implications of an actively heated chamber. Please be aware that the forum rules (https://forum.vorondesign.com/help/terms/) specifically do not allow discussion of active chamber heating. Thanks.