Considering Making a Voron Trident - Questions

[ImaginaryTango]

I'm currently using a Prusa Mk3.5s with an MMU3. Prusa worked for me until I added the MMU3 and even when it's disabled, it can still cause problems. (Last time I wasted over a day of productivity while troubleshooting an issue that even Prusa Tech support wasn't sure how to solve - in part, due to a bug.)

I don't hate Prusa and I'm not trying to trash them. I think they make good products (other than the MMU3 - which I hear is notorious). But I think it's time to move on to other options. I'm considering Bambu and Voron and see pros and cons for both of them. My general issue with Prusa is that my printer has changed from a productivity tool to a project.

I've looked over the Voron printers and would likely build a Trident (since the V2 is apparently more challenging and I want to start with something I can get working). From what I have been told, yes, it's a significant project to build a Voron, but once it's built and calibrated and working, that it can be a real workhorse and is quite reliable. I know any 3d printer has moving parts and needs periodic maintenance and recalibration, so I'm not asking if it's a miracle machine.

So I'm wondering, in general, how much experience and skill is needed to assemble a Trident correctly? I've looked over the West 3D website and called and they have kits, so I can print the printable parts on my Prusa and buy the kit with the other parts I'll need. I hear getting a parts kit helps, since it reduces the need to cut some parts to exact lengths. I did read, in one place, that most of the problems people have with a Voron being "out of square" was due to parts that weren't cut precisely.

Also, any guess or estimate about how many hours it takes to build a Trident? (I've seen cost estimates, I'm just wondering how long the build can take - I have other work, so I was planning on doing this in the background, which would also give me time for research and reading up on what I need to do and learn.

And do people here agree with the point that once a Voron is built and calibrated, that it's more a production machine than a project?

Also, overall, how helpful do you find the Voron community? I ask because I have learning disabilities, which can impact what I absorb when I read and sometimes when I post for help, I need to re-ask some questions to make sure I'm understanding things correctly. I do try to mimics that, but there are many times I see things differently and need that clarification. (I used to make a living with my own software business, so it's not like I can't handle technical concepts - I just sometimes need to find a different way to see something and to make sure I am clear what someone is saying.)

I'm also curious about the firmware for Voron. My understanding is it uses Klipper. Is there a stock version most people use and are there variations and options I can use in compiling Klipper for Voron use?

I feel like there would be a lot more questions at this point, but I just found out about Voron and I'm still not even sure what all my questions are, so I would like to hear more from people about what someone needs to know or what skills they need to build a Voron and just what the pitfalls are.

 

[bomtarnes]

I'm currently using a Prusa Mk3.5s with an MMU3. Prusa worked for me until I added the MMU3 and even when it's disabled, it can still cause problems. (Last time I wasted over a day of productivity while troubleshooting an issue that even Prusa Tech support wasn't sure how to solve - in part, due to a bug.)

I don't hate Prusa and I'm not trying to trash them. I think they make good products (other than the MMU3 - which I hear is notorious). But I think it's time to move on to other options. I'm considering Bambu and Voron and see pros and cons for both of them. My general issue with Prusa is that my printer has changed from a productivity tool to a project.

I've looked over the Voron printers and would likely build a Trident (since the V2 is apparently more challenging and I want to start with something I can get working). From what I have been told, yes, it's a significant project to build a Voron, but once it's built and calibrated and working, that it can be a real workhorse and is quite reliable. I know any 3d printer has moving parts and needs periodic maintenance and recalibration, so I'm not asking if it's a miracle machine.

So I'm wondering, in general, how much experience and skill is needed to assemble a Trident correctly? I've looked over the West 3D website and called and they have kits, so I can print the printable parts on my Prusa and buy the kit with the other parts I'll need. I hear getting a parts kit helps, since it reduces the need to cut some parts to exact lengths. I did read, in one place, that most of the problems people have with a Voron being "out of square" was due to parts that weren't cut precisely.

Also, any guess or estimate about how many hours it takes to build a Trident? (I've seen cost estimates, I'm just wondering how long the build can take - I have other work, so I was planning on doing this in the background, which would also give me time for research and reading up on what I need to do and learn.

And do people here agree with the point that once a Voron is built and calibrated, that it's more a production machine than a project?

Also, overall, how helpful do you find the Voron community? I ask because I have learning disabilities, which can impact what I absorb when I read and sometimes when I post for help, I need to re-ask some questions to make sure I'm understanding things correctly. I do try to mimics that, but there are many times I see things differently and need that clarification. (I used to make a living with my own software business, so it's not like I can't handle technical concepts - I just sometimes need to find a different way to see something and to make sure I am clear what someone is saying.)

I'm also curious about the firmware for Voron. My understanding is it uses Klipper. Is there a stock version most people use and are there variations and options I can use in compiling Klipper for Voron use?

I feel like there would be a lot more questions at this point, but I just found out about Voron and I'm still not even sure what all my questions are, so I would like to hear more from people about what someone needs to know or what skills they need to build a Voron and just what the pitfalls are.

If you managed to build your Prusa you'll be fine building a Voron.

A Voron will take more calibration than a Prusa to get the best from it.

Very hard to give you an accurate time estimate on building; that could range from a couple of days, to a few weeks of part-time building.

For a first time builder I would recommend a kit over self-sourcing parts, West3d would be a good choice for that.

I may be biased in terms of "how helpful is the voron community" as an active helper- but the community as a whole is awesome at getting people the help they need. I would say the response times on our Discord server are a lot quicker than here on the forum.

In terms of firmware we do advise Klipper - our Docs site covers the process for most common hardware: https://docs.vorondesign.com/build/software/

Hope this answers some of your questions.

 

[ImaginaryTango]

If you managed to build your Prusa you'll be fine building a Voron.

A Voron will take more calibration than a Prusa to get the best from it.

Very hard to give you an accurate time estimate on building; that could range from a couple of days, to a few weeks of part-time building.

For a first time builder I would recommend a kit over self-sourcing parts, West3d would be a good choice for that.

I may be biased in terms of "how helpful is the voron community" as an active helper- but the community as a whole is awesome at getting people the help they need. I would say the response times on our Discord server are a lot quicker than here on the forum.

In terms of firmware we do advise Klipper - our Docs site covers the process for most common hardware: https://docs.vorondesign.com/build/software/

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Thank you! Yes, that does start with my answers - and I'm getting a better feeling for what questions to ask! I'll number my questions so it's easy to just refer to one to provide a simple answer.

Some background before the questions: I use the Prusa MMU3, which has been a nightmare. I've been reading and it looks like the ERCF has similar issues, but I have read that some people love the Box Turtle for MMU usage, and I remember one person I talked to at a West3D mentioned another he thought was good. It wasn't something like "Tool Changer." it had a non-tech name (like Box Turtle is non-technical). I live in a humid area and I'm designing and building a print cabinet that has a dry box for filament storage, plus another dry box above the printers for the spools that are in use (either singly or with an MMU), and a compartment between the two for 2 printers. (Those will be open a lot, so I wanted the filament in separate dry boxes.) I'm finding the Prusa MMU3 to be bad for several reasons. One is the local humidity leads to filaments breaking off in it, and sometimes the feed gears/wheels grind into the filament and make dents so they can't push the filament through. This could be handled, but the problem is their firmware always assumes things are working, so I can't cancel an operation, fix the filament path, or adjust settings, then restart the function. I have to reset or power cycle the printer. (And Prusa has no interest in dealing with this issue.)

Many issues are solvable through hacks, accessories, and so on, but something in the firmware like this (especially when it's not open source) is almost impossible to work around.

Also, I can see times when I want a bigger print volume to work with.

1. I am thinking about building a Trident, since I see the V2 is more challenging. I don't ming a challenge, but for a 3D printer, I want to make sure it's done right. Just how much harder would it be for a newbie to build a V2 than a Trident? (You did point out that building a Prusa is good experience. I also built an Ender 3 Pro - that was much harder, in part due to Creality's eagerness to cut corners.)
2. I've looked over the docs for firmware. It looks to me like Klipper handles all the low level stuff and the interfaces, like Mainsail, Fluidd, and OctoPrint basically act as a UI and they call Kilpper to handle all the control functions. Is that correct?
3. It looks like the printed parts are done (or usually done) in ASA. Are there issues with using other filament types?
4. I've seen reference to multi-tool systems, but haven't seen anything that is more explicit. Is one solution, on Voron, for an MMU to use a multi-tool system? If so, what search terms would be good for finding out more on that? Is there a better term to use than multi-tool?
5. I mentioned the issue I had with Prusa that's cost me a lot of time. I know this is a specific point and rather picky - but are there ways to deal with an issue like that (either canceling operations or pausing while you do things like make an adjustment or re-feed filament) on Voron? (I figure it won't hurt to ask this...)

 

[NoGuru]

The build is not that difficult if you can do basic electronics. Everything is well documented and I would say the Voron community is probably one of the most helpful if not the best. This coming from a pretty old guy with lots of hobbies.

Yes a well build machine can do great prints and last years. That being said, the Vorons are more of a tinker type of printer, you might have to do things to keep it running well over time.

I have some Bambu Lab printers and they are the most hands off. Like set it and forget it. In fact I have one of the X1C's from launch and its still printing as I type and has not stopped for years.

As far as software, I have used all the major ones for Printers and nothing is better than Klipper.

 

[ImaginaryTango]

The build is not that difficult if you can do basic electronics. Everything is well documented and I would say the Voron community is probably one of the most helpful if not the best. This coming from a pretty old guy with lots of hobbies.

That's encouraging!

Yes a well build machine can do great prints and last years. That being said, the Vorons are more of a tinker type of printer, you might have to do things to keep it running well over time.

interesting, since I've seen a number of people talk about how heavily they use their Voron and how they don't need to do much to keep it going. I know any printer will require regular maintenance. Will a Voron take significantly more than others?

I have some Bambu Lab printers and they are the most hands off. Like set it and forget it. In fact I have one of the X1C's from launch and its still printing as I type and has not stopped for years.

I've heard that, and I'm keeping that option open, but I also hear Bambu is the most closed off in terms of being able to add to or modify a printer. I've also been told their UI is the best some have seen in terms of what it can do and completeness.

As far as software, I have used all the major ones for Printers and nothing is better than Klipper.

What is it that makes Klipper so good?