Question kit 2.4r2 and bed size

[str0gg]

Hello,

I am thinking about building voron.
1. What kit provider to choose (budget up to LDO) ?
2. What size is less problematic? (bed leveling, bed temperature, cons and pros of each size)?
3. Machine will be used mostly to print ASA, maybe ABS, will it handle medium, large or toll prints (with out warping)?
4. Will it handle PC (with out warping)?
5. Will it handle FLEX (with out jamming)?
6. Will it handle PA (with out warping)?
7. What max temperature can it withstand during few hours long prints?
8. Is it worth to invest in cnc voron tap or other replacement cnc parts for this printer?
9. Will it work with Enraget rabbit carrot feeder (yes will need mmu unit to work with it)?

 

[NoGuru]

The thing is, its all up to you.
If you are not going to self source the LDO seems like one of if not the best kit.
For the 2.4 or Trident the 300 is the optimal size but you can do a 350 or 250 if you want.
Both will do ASA/ABS no problem.
I have done PC with min.
I don't print flex but you can.
What is PA?
I have printed 20+ hours with chamber temps around 70c. Yours may vary depending on how well it is built.
CNC parts are only good IMO if you are going very high chamber temps. I think if you go higher then 70c for long you may need them.
Yes, rabbit will work with anything is my understanding.

 

[SeaDog]

247printing did a video where he build a ldo and a formbot kit and actually found that the formbot printed better. Apparently ldo had a problem with their steppers which has been fixed. However, he got superb prints from the formbot.

 

[str0gg]

The thing is, its all up to you.
If you are not going to self source the LDO seems like one of if not the best kit.
For the 2.4 or Trident the 300 is the optimal size but you can do a 350 or 250 if you want.
Both will do ASA/ABS no problem.
I have done PC with min.
I don't print flex but you can.
What is PA?
I have printed 20+ hours with chamber temps around 70c. Yours may vary depending on how well it is built.
CNC parts are only good IMO if you are going very high chamber temps. I think if you go higher then 70c for long you may need them.
Yes, rabbit will work with anything is my understanding.

PA - nylon blends.
How will you define well build? (torc to bolt spec, base kit quality, esun ABS or reprint with PC?)

 

[Sandman50]

1. What kit provider to choose (budget up to LDO) ?

More about how you build the kit you have. LDO is the "luxury" kit. I did a Fysetc. FAR more about what mods you want from the start and what other skills you have. I can rebuild car engines and re-wire fine electronics, so LDO is just money spent on stuff I can DIY.

2. What size is less problematic? (bed leveling, bed temperature, cons and pros of each size)?

I have a 350 and no issues with bed. Big enough to print cosplay helmets. Only real issues is a long-ish warm up time for ABS.

3. Machine will be used mostly to print ASA, maybe ABS, will it handle medium, large or toll prints (with out warping)?

Need to do appropriate mods to get chamber up to 50+ C for ABS. Can be done and prints come out nearly perfect.

I have worked with professional level printers (the $20-40k sort). The voron isn't *quite* as good as those, but it's damn close. It's as good or better than a Bambu that I also have access too.

4. Will it handle PC (with out warping)?

Yes, need a PT1000 thermistor to run up to 300C

5. Will it handle FLEX (with out jamming)?

Yes, direct drive with stealthburner toolhead.

6. Will it handle PA (with out warping)?

Yes, need a PT1000 thermistor. PA runs a cooler chamber than ABS. No issues.

7. What max temperature can it withstand during few hours long prints?

If you use ABS for the structural parts, no issues with PA or PC filaments. If you are ambitious. Build the 1st version with ABS, then replace parts with PA-CF when you get the voron running.

I've run ~18hr prints with no issues. They just work.

8. Is it worth to invest in cnc voron tap or other replacement cnc parts for this printer?

I did TAP (and CAN) from the start as everything else with regards to bed level is simpler. CNC is nice, but not needed. I printed all my base parts on an Ender clone. No issues.

9. Will it work with Enraget rabbit carrot feeder (yes will need mmu unit to work with it)?

Yes, but it depends on how many free driver spots you have. With a CAN toolhead board, you get 1 freed on the main board, so a 8 spot board allows you to run a carrot feeder without the extra board (I think, haven't built one yet).

 

[str0gg]

1. What kit provider to choose (budget up to LDO) ?

More about how you build the kit you have. LDO is the "luxury" kit. I did a Fysetc. FAR more about what mods you want from the start and what other skills you have. I can rebuild car engines and re-wire fine electronics, so LDO is just money spent on stuff I can DIY.

2. What size is less problematic? (bed leveling, bed temperature, cons and pros of each size)?

I have a 350 and no issues with bed. Big enough to print cosplay helmets. Only real issues is a long-ish warm up time for ABS.

3. Machine will be used mostly to print ASA, maybe ABS, will it handle medium, large or toll prints (with out warping)?

Need to do appropriate mods to get chamber up to 50+ C for ABS. Can be done and prints come out nearly perfect.

I have worked with professional level printers (the $20-40k sort). The voron isn't *quite* as good as those, but it's damn close. It's as good or better than a Bambu that I also have access too.

4. Will it handle PC (with out warping)?

Yes, need a PT1000 thermistor to run up to 300C

5. Will it handle FLEX (with out jamming)?

Yes, direct drive with stealthburner toolhead.

6. Will it handle PA (with out warping)?

Yes, need a PT1000 thermistor. PA runs a cooler chamber than ABS. No issues.

7. What max temperature can it withstand during few hours long prints?

If you use ABS for the structural parts, no issues with PA or PC filaments. If you are ambitious. Build the 1st version with ABS, then replace parts with PA-CF when you get the voron running.

I've run ~18hr prints with no issues. They just work.

8. Is it worth to invest in cnc voron tap or other replacement cnc parts for this printer?

I did TAP (and CAN) from the start as everything else with regards to bed level is simpler. CNC is nice, but not needed. I printed all my base parts on an Ender clone. No issues.

9. Will it work with Enraget rabbit carrot feeder (yes will need mmu unit to work with it)?

Yes, but it depends on how many free driver spots you have. With a CAN toolhead board, you get 1 freed on the main board, so a 8 spot board allows you to run a carrot feeder without the extra board (I think, haven't built one yet).

Sounds great, could you list mods you did with some description worth it/hate it/fix something?

 

[Sandman50]

Sounds great, could you list mods you did with some description worth it/hate it/fix something?

CAN - very nice to reduce the amount of wires going to the toolhead. There are a few detailed step by step instructions out there. A little bit of head scratching to figure out some details for the BTT EBB2209 board - but really just for the 4 wire PWM fan. This mod also requires a relocation of the Z chain to the rear cross member.

The CAN cable can either go to the rear gantry, then through a PG7 to the toolhead, or by the filament bowden tune.

Printables

www.printables.com

TAP - again a very nice quality of life improvement. It gets rid of managing two different Z offsets (sensor to bed and nozzle to sensor offsets). So nozzle or bed changes to Z offset are basically automatically dealt with. A few kits out there, I used LDOs. From what I can tell, they are basically all the same. LDOs kit has pre-cut track for the carriage.

Needed to go with TAP:

• https://www.printables.com/model/312008-voron-24-a-drive-pg7-umbilical-mount
• https://www.printables.com/model/422323-voron-stealthburner-cw2-chain-anchor-pg7
• https://www.printables.com/model/481811-bigtreetech-sb2209-sb2240-pcb-fan

The X and Y stops can be relocated. X to the toolhead and Y to the right rear block (mentioned in the 1st PG7 link above). Both of these reduce the amount of wires on the gantry to zero.

IMHO, if there is a sketchy part of the Voron 2.4 / Trident it's the cable chains on the gantry. They work, but it's a long term reliability issue that can be solved with CAN.

I would read the Ellis tuning guide thoroughly. There are some good macros and mods for a more rubust unit in there.

There's a whole host of things you can do with macros to make the unit more livable. More fully automated filament changes, mods to the print start macro to be more robust and more efficient, etc. etc.

Then there is a bunch of basically cosmetic / quality of life stuff:

• Z - bearings GE5C (smoother gantry adjustments - really not expensive so wonder why it's not stock):
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/eB5T2RNQcYI4o6cilhpXEg
• Rockers - nice when you rock it back to work on the electronics compartment (A 350 is big and heavy to pick up and put on it's head. Probably wouldn't do if I had a 250)
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/?search=rocknlol-rocknroll
• 270* door hinges ("free")
  • https://www.teamfdm.com/files/file/50-270°-hinge-parametric/
• LED lights in the top structure.
  • https://github.com/VoronDesign/Voro...LED_Bar_Clip/LED_Bar_Clip_Misumi_version2.stl
• Angry Camera:
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/RYpQW53mtem8Nj1JKqiSQ
• Deck hold downs
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/7vnCQwmDSUxvUPSLaLtElg
• Brush nozzle cleaner (multiple versions)
  • I ended up CADding my own to combine the brush cleaner with the bed alignment things below.
• Bed alignment
  • https://www.printables.com/model/346782-voron-24-bed-alignment-stop-updated
• Bed fans (actually, I'd say this is required if you want to print ABS - chamber time to 50* is 1/2 the time with the fans vs without)
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/28xgztUufAtAfV4XUL5l4w
• Side entry for filament at the exhaust duct (IMHO, silly this isn't a standard part of the build. A 350 is a big unit, hard to get a workbench that has enough depth so the filament tube can go straight out the back and make a turn for a spool)
  • https://mods.vorondesign.com/detail/YI1xmcLeAMZ4mNkh0Ytg
• Bowden tube support finger.
  • https://www.teamfdm.com/files/file/601-bowden-tube-guide/
  • There is a clip to connect the bowden to the CAN cable, but can't find the mod now.

 

[Sanity Agathion]

That's some really nice list of links

Although I still maintain opinion that CAN, while being nice in reducing number of cables, is still in very infant state for our application and many times complicates matters more than it adds. Industrial CAN has much better transfer rates, reliability and everything, but we rely on whatever Aliexpress vendors manage to put together, and basic klipper support for it. Knowledge base is also still not there, with CAN you start getting "timer too close" or "failed to communicate with MCU" headaches and now what? Where are you even going to start? So you just move one problem area to another which you do not understand and do not know how to investigate and troubleshoot.

I have a feeling major part in spread was Formbot and potentially other vendors, using shitty cables for chains, and people not installing those properly. Umbilical with 16 wires are also doable, and I am looking forward to USB toolhead boards instead of CAN because at least the setup will be dead simple (it's just another MCU and not faffing around with CAN interfaces).

Sorry for my rant

 

[str0gg]

Thanks for adding additional 5 cents I appreciate every opinion. Since Voron is very time consuming to build I would like to do it on first shot instead rebuilding constantly ;-)

CAN is pretty easy to debug standard more problematic thing would be find documents describing communication standards between devices and possible problem with kernel driver if issue is there.

 

[Sanity Agathion]

Thanks for adding additional 5 cents I appreciate every opinion. Since Voron is very time consuming to build I would like to do it on first shot instead rebuilding constantly ;-)

CAN is pretty easy to debug standard more problematic thing would be find documents describing communication standards between devices and possible problem with kernel driver if issue is there.

It can work more or less reliably, just the setup may be challenging even for experienced builders, even more so for newbies who are just starting with first Klipper build. Especially when CANboot bootloader is involved. And then troubleshooting should things go wrong. Right now it boils down to "use twisted can-h + can-l wires, check interface errors, lower the bus speed, make sure your Pi can keep up, do not use 64-bit OS".

 

[Sandman50]

I got CAN setup on my 2nd try. I've had a couple MCU errors, but don't know if that's CAN or something else.

It would be nice to see somebody test the baud rate required to no have issues. Should be just fast enough to not cause print quality issues.

The youtube vid Ilinked is a very good setup by step.