Printing with NatureWorks 4043D ("HTPLA")

[m00dawg]

Curious if anyone has been able to get good results with printing with NatureWorks 4043D (ala ProtoPasta, PLA Plus, HTPLA, Push Platic, etc.)? I found on Prusa's I had to swap the heatbreak with a standard e3d one (sprung for the titanium in my case) in order to print ProtoPasta reliably. Now it prints quite well but recently ran into similar issues with Push Plastic PLA. That stuff is _fantastic_ and so far their customer service has sailed *well* above my previous suppliers. I'm generally quite happy!

On the Prusa's at least. On my Voron 2.4 with SB2 and a Rapido v1 I am getting clogs. PP had some recommendations to try, mentioning in particular filament grinding is a possible culprit tied to long PTFE runs so I'm gonna look into that. I've gotten that pretty well tuned at this point I think but I can try to see if I can further improve it. I've had issues with both a CW2 and Galileo 2 extruder.

I just got the G2 working (and it works really well!) so hoping I don't need to swap that out but if I can print more reliably, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping out the Rapido for a known working config. I quite like it (more than the Revo since I can use plated nozzles) but this is a filament I'll want to print fairly regularly such that I gotta do what I gotta do.

I have thought also about upping the heatsink fan, though it's already using a 7k RPM fan (at least if the specs aren't lying).

Anyone have any idears?

 

[mallcop]

Can you post what you're using for:

* reverse bowden (spool to toolhead)
* forward bowden (extruder to hotend)
* spool holder itself
* chamber temperature / printer preparation
* minimum & maximum flow rates
* nozzle temperature, and nozzle type/size
* retraction settings

 

[m00dawg]

Can you post what you're using for:

* reverse bowden (spool to toolhead)
* forward bowden (extruder to hotend)
* spool holder itself
* chamber temperature / printer preparation
* minimum & maximum flow rates
* nozzle temperature, and nozzle type/size
* retraction settings

Thanks mallcop! Happily!

* reverse bowden (spool to toolhead)
White/Frosted PTFE (not Capicorn) - I don't recall the brand but it was noted as having less friction/larger inner diameter and recommended erhm I think on Fabreeko's Discord is memory serves. Might've been the Voron Discord. I think it's "Allen Tech PTFE" available on the Evil Jungle (Amazon).
* forward bowden (extruder to hotend)
Generic blue PTFE I got with some PC4 fittings. True for both CW2 and G2, though in CW2 the tube is much shorter. Both extruders have the same issue though it did seem like CW2 generally did better.
* spool holder itself
It's a dry box from Target with 3kg spool on sleds from Atomic Filament sitting on the side of the printer. It runs out through the frosted PTFE and over to the inlet at the top of the V2.4 with a PTFE passthrough. I haven't had any issues with most filaments with this setup except for the current filament of course as well as 3DXTech's PLA. Their PLA is rough on the outside that was sometimes an issue. I've shortened it so but while making sure the filament travel isn't on a tight radius. I haven't used the 3DX stuff in a while. Push's PLA is maybe a bit rougher than Atomic's but not nearly as much as 3DX's.
* chamber temperature / printer preparation
Bed temp: 55C
Hotend Temp:
For normal PLA, around the typical 215C
For Push, I've tried 195 all the way up to 230C but I haven't yet tried higher (higher temps didn't work in my one Prusa that doesn't have the standard heatbreak).
Printer prep is 5-10 minutes of heatsoak on the bed with the nozzle centered above. Then I heat hotend to printing temp, let is run until the filament is done dribbling out (about 5 minutes), give it a wipe, then start QGL followed by the print. I don't use a skirt and instead print a small tile on the top right to prime the nozzle
* minimum & maximum flow rates
I've tried slow and fast, opting for the stock Voron profile on Super Slicer (see attach). Max volumetric speed is 13mm/s.
* nozzle temperature, and nozzle type/size
I've tried up to 230C thus far with both a .6 (e3d nickel/copper) and .4 Bondtech CHT Bimetal
* retraction settings
Length: 0.75
Lift-Z: 0.4
Speed: 50mm
De-retraction: 30mm

I don't think I mentioned it but it's a 350mm V2.4. LDO parts (batch 3 as I recall). I'm not using CAN or an umbilical yet so wires are still run via chains.

The above setup works well for Atomic PLA, AMOLEN multi-color PLA, Atomic and Push ABS, Atomic and Push PETG (normal PETG I haven't tried CF but I don't have a need to print CF on this printer). None of those use 4043D resin though.

 

[mallcop]

Beautiful.

How long does it run before it clogs, and is it pretty repeatable?

 

[m00dawg]

Forgive the pun but yeah for one part it was like *puts on shades* clockwork YEAAAH!. Right because Clockwork 2? Yeah...I'm sorry. It's a Monday.

Anyways! With G2, it'd fail in the same spot almost every time. With CW2, I was able to get some perfect prints as well as imperfect but complete prints. This post in the G2 thread shows some of those. I still might have a few as I haven't throw away my ded parts bin yet if you wanted to see them up close.

Since I was getting passing prints with CW2, I initially thought it was a problem with G2 (specifically with my ability to build it - not a design flaw or anything like that). But then I printed some cases for the Airgradient CO2 sensors and WHAM I got nailed with it again. Probably after about the same amount of print time / height.

That's when I tried swapping to Atomic PLA and had zero issues. So then I went back to G2 to print more of those parts and pure perfection. I said in the G2 post, CW2 itself is quite glorious but whoa G2 definitely made a difference and in a fairly surprising way.

In a pinch I know I can use Atomic if I need to but their black PLA lately has been giving me inconsistencies with opacity and that's an important quality I need for many of my parts. Push is crazy opaque (at least the black which is mostly what I need to print) and only having to use 1 supplier for my staple PLA would be advantageous. Not the worst case if I had to keep using Atomic for my Voron though. But yeah if I could get this working reliably with PP, all the better.

 

[mallcop]

I'm not going to send you away from a Rapido, it works pretty well for PLA. That is, assuming you didn't overtighten the grub screw... There's a tiny little screw, like an M2 or smaller, that holds the skinny filament guide tube into the heatsink. It's incredibly easy to overtighten that (sometimes from the factory), and combined with a Voron already being on the edge for PLA printability -- can cause a lot of jams. Does this sound like something that could have happened?

 

[m00dawg]

Hmmm right is that the "thingamagig" in the build docs for Clockwork 2 or something on Rapido itself? I remember being worried about the Thingamagig being not set right when I built CW2. G2 doesn't have that though I did try messing with the tension on both to see if it was too loose/tight.

I was pondering if it might help to remove the left and right panels. I open the front doors all the way when printing PLA. I do print ABS and PETG in there sometimes too which is why I kept them on but 90% of the time it's PLA to the point I think I could look at the magmount mods for the panels? I think that's a thing for the 2.4?

I have a Revo sitting in a box here so if it's known to be superior for PLA on 2.4's I can print the insert and try it. I just find the nozzles aren't nearly as good though I haven't tried Obxidian though. I've been really quite happy with the copper/nickel nozzles from E3D and only recently started looking at those CHT Bimetals. So far the quality is good but it doesn't quite match the E3D copper/nickel in top layer finish (the E3D seems to give a smoother and more consistent look, though it's a pretty small difference).

I see Fabreeko has their Honeybadger fans which can go up to 9600 RPM. Wondering if that might help things out.

 

[m00dawg]

Quick update, ended up order that fan canon from Fabreeko to see if that works. Will let folks know once I get it here and installed and get some test prints going.

 

[m00dawg]

Another update, I installed that crazy fan. It did seem to help printing a Voron cube though I saw a tiny part of a layer that looked like it may have had some trouble. So, opted to slow things down a bit and also went ahead and removed side panels and doors (left the rear and top). Only 1 test print the combination of those seems to have done the job. I ended up with a flawless cube. Remains to be seen if real items work as well but it's a promising sign.

 

[m00dawg]

Well, I threw a lot of things at it, including going up to 250C on the hotend. Feels like that actually did help but I still ended up with a jam. I quite like the Rapido but since I happen to have a Revo here I haven't been using I'm going to try it. I prefer the surface finish I get from regular e3d nickel/copper nozzles and Bondtech Bimetals. But if I can get it working it might be worth it.

I feels a lot like how Prusa's behave when using the Prusa heatbreak as I think I mentioned up above. That makes me think I'm working against the internal geometry inside the Rapido.

At any rate, if I still get jams I think I'll have to call it a lost cause and make sure I print regular PLA on my 2.4.

 

[m00dawg]

I don't want to yet claim success but after a full days worth of printing things with the Revo and HTPLA, I haven't had ANY clogs!

It prints very similarly to my Prusa's so yep I think the culprit may have been the Rapido. A shame I quite like that hotend as it feels more durable than the Revo. The wiring failed on my first Revo in my V0 after tens of hours and I'm not super jazzed about the patents. So I think I might still be in the market for perhaps another hotend though *shrug*.

However I do otherwise quite like the results from the Revo so I may try the Obxidian just to see if that gives me the nice top layers I tend to get with nickel plated copper nozzles.