To kit or not to kit

[korser]

Hi,

I'm looking for advices on building a Trident. I've been wondering if I should use a kit or source it myself.

Some background info. I've been printing for a few years on a Prusa Mini, I got one of the early kit. While it's a solid printer it's slow and the build volume is relatively small. Last year I decided to mod it and rebuild it as a Mini Bear. I self sourced everything, even cutting the aluminum extrusion. I really enjoyed the research and the build process. I'd say the build was mostly mechanical with a tiny bit of electronic, crimping a few cables. My printer is a little bit faster but still small and really not the best to print ABS.

I wanted to build a Trident for a few reasons
1- I keep reading it's an easier printer to build for beginner
2- I'd like to add an ECRF later (Until recently I thought it was only for Trident)
3- I thought maybe one day making a Tridex to print ABS with soluble materials. (I'm still not sure about this especially with organic support)
4- Plate at the top for faster heating

I was looking at building a 300mm size with either a CW2 or Orbiter 2.0. I was thinking a Rapido HF as I don't really want to get into Revo ecosystem.
For the rest I was planning Tap Kit which I assume you don't need Z stopper anymore. I was thinking sensorless XY endstop with TMC2209 otherwise Hall effect.
CanBus with an SB2040, I don't want to deal with a lot of cables. Cables in general I would prefer having everything pre-crimp. Also going umbilical instead of chains.

I'm wondering if the convenience of getting a kit is worth it compare to sourcing yourself. I like the idea of getting what I want but I don't want it to be painful, cables especially. Is buying a kit and adding on top a good approach? For example my garage can get humid, I learned that I need stainless steel nuts and bolt. Going with an LDO kit for example means I have to buy a separate fastener kit. Magic Phoenix kit seems to be more aligned with what I want and priced lower for some reason. There's always West 3d self configurator but maybe I should just do it myself like I did for my Mini Bear.

Thank you for the help and advice

 

[red6rick]

Hi,

I'm looking for advices on building a Trident. I've been wondering if I should use a kit or source it myself.

Some background info. I've been printing for a few years on a Prusa Mini, I got one of the early kit. While it's a solid printer it's slow and the build volume is relatively small. Last year I decided to mod it and rebuild it as a Mini Bear. I self sourced everything, even cutting the aluminum extrusion. I really enjoyed the research and the build process. I'd say the build was mostly mechanical with a tiny bit of electronic, crimping a few cables. My printer is a little bit faster but still small and really not the best to print ABS.

I wanted to build a Trident for a few reasons
1- I keep reading it's an easier printer to build for beginner
2- I'd like to add an ECRF later (Until recently I thought it was only for Trident)
3- I thought maybe one day making a Tridex to print ABS with soluble materials. (I'm still not sure about this especially with organic support)
4- Plate at the top for faster heating

I was looking at building a 300mm size with either a CW2 or Orbiter 2.0. I was thinking a Rapido HF as I don't really want to get into Revo ecosystem.
For the rest I was planning Tap Kit which I assume you don't need Z stopper anymore. I was thinking sensorless XY endstop with TMC2209 otherwise Hall effect.
CanBus with an SB2040, I don't want to deal with a lot of cables. Cables in general I would prefer having everything pre-crimp. Also going umbilical instead of chains.

I'm wondering if the convenience of getting a kit is worth it compare to sourcing yourself. I like the idea of getting what I want but I don't want it to be painful, cables especially. Is buying a kit and adding on top a good approach? For example my garage can get humid, I learned that I need stainless steel nuts and bolt. Going with an LDO kit for example means I have to buy a separate fastener kit. Magic Phoenix kit seems to be more aligned with what I want and priced lower for some reason. There's always West 3d self configurator but maybe I should just do it myself like I did for my Mini Bear.

Thank you for the help and advice

I self-sourced a 300mm Trident and I'm very happy with the results -- except I found that I probably spent $200 more than a kit would have cost! I didn't source any cables, I crimp at need and don't have a problem with that. I went with a canbus board, but I'm running it in USB mode with no issues whatsoever. And tap, and sensorless homing, and inverted electronics.

It is 300mm on build plate, but only 110mm tall. I built the full Trident, got it working, then cut it down so it would fit into the storage compartment of my RV so I can take it with me when I travel.

BUT all that said, I'm happy to have done exactly what I did. I love my little Trident!

 

[ZeroBrain]

I self-sourced a V0 and Trident. Honestly with the quality of the kits continuing to increase, I would 100% buy a kit today, and replace/resell anything you don't want.

A few reasons in particular which you can discard as desired...

• Up-front cost efficiency of a kit (shipping, etc). Advantage even if time is free to you.
• Sourcing little things like 2-4 sizes of wire, connector types, etc can get expensive
• There's plenty of self-sourcing "fun" you can have with mod later

I don't think you really said if money matters too much. If you're the type would choose SIX premium rails @$35ea vs SIX standard @$26, then self-sourcing might be fun for you. But if you are like me who wanted to be more efficient, I bought 3 premium and 3 standard - I think a kit as a starting point is better.

Anyways, it can all turn into a long discussion. I vote kit unless you want to self-source a premium or very custom config (which you should not do for your first Voron).

_I_ would do this as a first-time Voron builder today...

• Really dig into research (Discord if you have time) and read the build manual twice
• Buy a kit at whatever price/quality level speaks to you
• Make a spreadsheet of components you aren't happy with in the kit and self-source those
• (Do the build)
• Sell off all the parts which you opted not to use, hopefully one thrifty buyer will take the lot

As @red6rick did, please do Inverted Electronics for all that is sane in this world.

 

[Sanity Agathion]

Nowadays the quality of kits vastly improved over what it was 2 years ago, including cheaper Aliexpress kits. Plus people learned what deficiencies kits or their respective batches have, and can address those themselves (like wobbly rails with v0 LDO kits or bad fans and MXL pulleys with Formbot kits). LDO is a really good, Prusa style plug'n'play kit with everything laid out. Magic Phoenix offesr good kits too. The price comes to economy of scale IMO - they are able to contract bulk buys at lower prices.

As for the question "which kit to pick?" - here on this forum are posts where people provide feedback about kits, and it's commonly discussed topic on Discord too. In general - you get what you pay for LDO is the gucciest but most expensive, Magic Phoenix is OK kit with stock parts, popular kit from China is Formbot which is good compromise between price and performance but you may need to check and address few things right from the get-go (mgn12 rail may be wobbly, check pulley if they are for 2GT belts and not MXL, fans are dying fast, acrylic is crackijng, lack of cable management tools, ...). Avoid cheapest options on Aliexpress, it's usually scam if it's too good to be true, or just bad and possibly dangerous experience.

Alternative to complete self-sourcing may be buying partial kits. Frame kit (LDO frame, Tensor3D, DLLPDF), motor kits (OMC Stepperonline, LDO), rail sets, fasteners kits, panels, ... it can ease a lot of sourcing while still having option to pick and choose. Things just may take longer and you will overpay some on convenience and shipping. There may also be some gotchas like tnuts not fitting to LDO or Misumi frames ...

If you are in the US, there are some great vendors who will bend forwards and backwards for satisfying VORON community needs. West3D, Fabreeko, DFH, Printed Solid, Don't hesitate to reach out and ask them, they are nice people who had been in community for quite some time.

GL HF sourcing and building one!

P.S.: Prusa MINI is actually great little ABS printer! Mine printed parts for 2 VORONs for me. Just reprint X carriage with ducts - I highly recommend printing some better ducts - and PINDA holder, and you are at good starting point. Maybe later on reprint all parts from ABS and rebuild. That thing is actually very resilient, I have 45+ degrees in chamber and it handles it like a champ. It's slow, yeah.

 

[korser]

Thank you that's all great feedback. I had no idea about the inverted electronics mod. That seems way more convenient and easier, thanks @red6rick !

@ZeroBrain I think I'm more how you've described yourself. I don't want to be cheap and get the lowest price possible. At the same time I don't want to pick all the most expensive options just to be premium. I prefer doing a bit more research and be smart about where I put my money. I'm looking at MatterHackers who's currently selling a LDO kit for 1115$ that could be a good starting point and I have a PI. I just wished they would state which revision it is. I know I would probably want to change a bunch of things and I thought about your suggestion of reselling the parts I don't use. I'm not sure if it's relatively easy or not but knowing myself I would probably just end up storing the extras in my garage. I doubt that's a viable option for me. What would you change/upgrade on a LDO kit?

I also like your suggestion @Sanity Agathion to buy partial kits and I'm also located in US. Maybe this option is better suited for me. More research! I think I'll need to build that spreadsheet

Also this week I've been wondering about building a Voron 2. Is it that much more complicated to build for a beginner? Not that I want to start a debate between the two I'm just curious if I should consider it.

Alright to be fair to my Mini I think it's a great printer and I've been using it for years. I like to print functional parts but I also print a bunch of toys or whatever for my kids. For ABS mine is not currently enclosed but if I want to print Voron parts I'll have to. Here's a picture of my Mini Bear.

 

[claudermilk]

I went the Mini->Trident route myself. At the time there wasn't much available on the kit front so I self-sourced. I guess in a couple of cases I did the partial-kit route that Sanity mentioned: LDO frame kit and Z stepper kit. I was able to group most of my buys enough to eliminate most shipping. But, I still had to chase down forgotten parts as I went. One other aspect is I was new to the whole scene so I had zero stock of anything; I got enough hardware, wires, and connectors to supply future projects with the initial buy-in.

Today? Kit all the way and that's what I'm doing with an LDO V0.2S1 kit sitting here. It's all known good parts (LDO & Fabreeko definitely went full Gucci with it).

Another consideration is with a kit, you start with a known baseline. Then you can mod from there.

 

[Sanity Agathion]

V2 has a bit more parts, especially plastic. But if you handled Mini bear, and can follow instructions, you will build any VORON.

Yes that's disadvantage of self-sourcing ... you may overbuy. And get tangled into "oooo this is a cool mod I will buy parts right away and build it with it!" kind of thinking. Scope creep essentially

 

[robrob]

I went from a mini to a 350 LDO 2.4 as my first build... LOVED IT. As soon as I finished my 2.4, I immediately built a formbot 02.

and now obviously a Trident is up next, I am just hem hawing on the specifics before I pull the trigger.

 

[korser]

I‘even been debating between a 250 and 300 the last few days but decided to go with a 300 cube if possible. I bought a few things I know for sure I would be needing or changing whether I take a LDO kit or self sourced. CAN Bus equipment and Hotend. I’m still going through the exercise of comparing kit cost + modding vs self source with exactly what I want. I’m sure self source will be more expensive but I’m curious by how much more.

 

[motor5622]

I self sorced both my V2 and trident. But I was patient and scanned fb marketplace, ebay and garagesale on the discord and got most everything either used or new that someone really wanted to get rid of.

 

[Sanity Agathion]

I self sorced both my V2 and trident. But I was patient and scanned fb marketplace, ebay and garagesale on the discord and got most everything either used or new that someone really wanted to get rid of.

That's a good way to do it. Just not many people do it nowadays, because it requires patience and dedication to do research and snipe good parts. I self-sourced printers and I can say that it was huge part of education process - I learned a lot. Learning what part and why, what's the reasoning behind it.

 

[Mittnz]

If you don't buy a kit, there are a few things that you CAN buy "kits" for, that make sourcing way easier.
For example, I bought the Hardware Kit from Printed Solid, and it was so much more convenient than it would have been to source all of that hardware. Especially because you have to buy 500pcs of something you may only need a few of. So, that was worth the $80 or whatever I paid (even cheaper if you buy a hardware kit off of AliExpress, though I can't speak to their quality).

Since you mentioned cables, there are also wiring kits for the Trident, that would make that process easier. I've seen some that are fully crimped harness kits, and others that are just the materials themselves, if you enjoy crimping yourself.

I self-sourced everything else, which was kind of fun. Though, I am positive I spent way more than I would have had I just bought a complete kit.

 

[fx0rec]

As for the question "which kit to pick?" - here on this forum are posts where people provide feedback about kits, and it's commonly discussed topic on Discord too. In general - you get what you pay for LDO is the gucciest but most expensive, Magic Phoenix is OK kit with stock parts, popular kit from China is Formbot which is good compromise between price and performance but you may need to check and address few things right from the get-go (mgn12 rail may be wobbly, check pulley if they are for 2GT belts and not MXL, fans are dying fast, acrylic is crackijng, lack of cable management tools, ...). Avoid cheapest options on Aliexpress, it's usually scam if it's too good to be true, or just bad and possibly dangerous experience.

I've only built the Formbot Trident 300 (bought it in April 2022) so I can't comment on the rest. But cable management is easily neglected, especially if it's is your first project of this magnitude, and you often don't realize how incredibly tedious itis until you sit there with chains packed of PVC wires where 2-3 of them are "out of sync" and unwilling to move that 1 cm to get it just right..

If you have the option to self source, and know your way with electronics/firmware, I'd opt for a build that includes CAN right away. Haven't tried it out myself and I don't know much about the setup, but oh man would I have been better off with a 4 wired umbilical...

Aside from that, my kit contained the proper parts, and prints incredibly well considering the fact that I (a complete noob) built it from scratch lol. Only problem is a second, minor hump on the Y-axis during input shaper, limits my accel to 5.3k :/ Not sure if that could have anything to do with the wobbly rails you speak of Sanity?

 

[Print3DWorld]

Kit is the way to go; and in the future you can upgrade with better rails and mods. LDO kit is top notch, FYSETC for budget friendly. Clean the linear rails according to guides online and you'll get good life. I recommend superlube grease for all PMs.

 

[WhiteWulfe]

I'm a fairly big proponent of the convenience of kits for a variety of reasons. Overall cost is one (if you live in an area where you're going to get hit with a bunch of shipping fees, they definitely add up, and quickly), but the biggest is convenience - you're literally waiting on only ONE package. I have a definite preference for the LDO ones over Formbot, especially since the actual cost difference between the two isn't as large as it may initially seem, and they actually support their kits if something is wrong.

It's going to be interesting with my next build, which will probably be a Micron or a 250mm v2.4, neither of which have full on kits - you can get hardware kits for the Micron Plus from Fabreeko (and probably several other places), but no kit maker I trust offers a 250mm v2.4. I might let someone talk me into the 250mm Trident instead, since LDO makes a kit for that, and it offers similar options for my goals on that front anyways...

 

[jamihanf]

Thanks for the information!