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Dueling Zero Updates

zruncho

Member

Dueling Zero is a Dual Gantry V0 mod.​


Two extruders, no compromises. Kinda like an IDEX... but rarer, and more interesting, if you're into the "outside lands" of Voron mods.

Since the original release livestream this year on the DoomCube Discord, I've added a few things, and I figured this thread would be a way to share some of those updates that haven't made their way to GitHub yet, because I don't share things broadly until I trust that they'll work for you out-of-the-box. Read to the end for a small announcement, too...

Anyway, time to put this printer to work!

(1) New enclosure added, based on ZeroPanels v3!
Take a look, as this video walks through the new (unreleased) panels and design history:


(2) Internal spool holders!​

Yes, this V0 fits two internal spools, with no loss of travel. 🤷‍♂️

The custom design uses flexure-loaded 608 top bearings with custom-fit plastic rollers on top, with 2x 608 bearings on the bottom. Should double as a convenient filament dryer, though with ABS as the main material here, that's not a big deal. But in the future, nylons and others could be interesting.

PXL_20221211_234241023.jpg

(3) ZeroFilter added!

It's VHBed to the bottom for now, until I can select and print a larger rear-of-enclosure design. Sacrifices a tiny bit of Z, but the Z is completely unoptimized anyway, so no biggie.
1672167035210.png

(4) PA tuned using Ellis' new Pattern method!​

After these changes, I did a PA tune in 6m, using Ellis' latest pattern generator. If you haven't seen it yet - check it out! It's awesome. So much better than the prior method of printing a box and measuring.

PXL_20221227_005313589.jpg

The results: :chefkiss​

The first ABS print worked out nicely, using known-good V0 profiles. Inland matte gray hides all sins (VFAs, ringing... it's like the vantablack of gray), so I'm kinda cheating here, but next up will be KVP MSIL, which is the opposite: it reveals all flaws.

PXL_20221227_022949607.jpg

There's plenty of additional stuff before this can be considered done. For example, the bottom board is foam, so that's probably the next-most-important item, to switch out to ABS.

And I want to do a complete change-out of the electronics if I'm going to do that, as well as return to the software and auto-tuning side.

But I'm excited for at least two reasons:
- "a larger V0" - basically, this is "just" a Tri-Zero Plus50 when you use one extruder, with a roughly ~170x170 square build volume - means I can in theory do full plates overnight, as well as slightly longer parts that just couldn't be done on a 120 bed like the others I have.
- there's likely to be another D0 on the horizon soon, and it's not my build. Stay tuned!

Stay tuned... I'll try to keep this updated with major improvements. Feel free to use this thread for questions and comments, too, especially once you've looked through the enormous amount of loving-crafted documentation on the GitHub, including a full design walkthough. I appreciate any motivators here, as this thing alternates between 'work' and 'intensely rewarding' in my mind.
 
Thanks for posting this @zruncho Not only is this a great write up, but the link you posted to your design doc is an incredibly fascinating read. I wanted to build one of these until I read the design doc and realized some of the stuff you came up with is way beyond me. I will still continue to follow your progress here, I think this is an awesome project.
 
Thanks for posting this @zruncho Not only is this a great write up, but the link you posted to your design doc is an incredibly fascinating read. I wanted to build one of these until I read the design doc and realized some of the stuff you came up with is way beyond me. I will still continue to follow your progress here, I think this is an awesome project.
Glad you saw it here, as I'm not sure how much engagement this forum has yet, compared to the Discord.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in that repo, especially the design walkthrough! I'm hoping to get a chance to return to the software side soon.
In the meantime, been just... doing a lot of printing with D0, using one extruder. I figure, I should get it awesome before adding more variables back. And it's already great to have a much larger V0 to do full-night plates with.

Here's the plate from last night:

PXL_20230102_182749739.jpg
 
Those v3 ZeroPanels are looking rather snazzy. Any chance of versions that would work with 20mm extrusion? Would love that ease of removal on my V2.
How well does cardboard spools fare with that internal spool holder system?
 
Those v3 ZeroPanels are looking rather snazzy. Any chance of versions that would work with 20mm extrusion? Would love that ease of removal on my V2.
How well does cardboard spools fare with that internal spool holder system?
The CAD is nicely parameterized, but for any version of ZP for 2020, I'd need some extrusion to test it.

No cardboard spools to test either, but the rolling resistance seems fairly low with the bearings, so I would guess that it would be fine.
 
Just found your link in discord. Love the internal spool holder. I was planning on doing them exactly like this (i already measured it in cad and realized this could work lol).
You mind sharing the stepfile? Wouldn't this be perfect to test 3D-printed bearings instead of 608? I don't have 6x608 laying around anyway.

There are a couple of designs for 3d printed bearings available already in the open source space.
 
I was just looking at the CAD. It seems the rear bed mount is not connected to the rear bracket at all. It's not aligned in the same way as Tri-zero, and that bracket isn't going to slide any higher, so what is the intended solution? 1673720039877.png
 
I was just looking at the CAD. It seems the rear bed mount is not connected to the rear bracket at all. It's not aligned in the same way as Tri-zero, and that bracket isn't going to slide any higher, so what is the intended solution? View attachment 1404
Hey,
I have built a duelingZero and modified the whole z-bed holding assembly, if there is interest, i would publish it on github.
I have also changed the Z-endstop and other stuff, icluding an electronics bay at the back.
Greetings,
Phil
 
Hey,
I have built a duelingZero and modified the whole z-bed holding assembly, if there is interest, i would publish it on github.
I have also changed the Z-endstop and other stuff, icluding an electronics bay at the back.
Greetings,
Phil
Awesome! Is it printing?

Would love to see a pic of what you've got.

I've got a complete rear Z redo that I'm testing now, which add +20mm Z with only a few easy parts, but haven't considered a rear bay, as there's plenty of space below.

If you're on the DoomCube Discord, there's a #dueling-zero-dev thread now, in the #tri-zero channel. It's fairly active there.
 
Hey,

unfortunaltely its not yet printing, because I'm missing 3007 fans for 24v. I melted my 5v ones :cautious:, don't ask me how.
Another thing i`m missing is the dualgantry.py for the klipper kinematics. Seems like they are not available on your github.
I'm not on discord regularly, i don't like the layout there.
I have attached some Photos, they are not nice, but you should get the idea.
My bed is also mains powered und the heads are printed from polycarbonate, i want extra spice...just ignore the loose wiring on the beds grounding ;).

Regards,
Philipp
 

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Wow! That's almost complete. You're getting really close. It always makes my day to see new builds here.

Re: 5v - I've also melted by 5v ones, and we both know how :)

Code is here: https://github.com/zruncho3d/klipper/tree/dual_gantry_main - I moved it there today to make it easier to find, plus documented this on the main GitHub. All the software/firmware config is gonna get updated soonish, now that about 5 builds are mostly complete, and I want to see everyone get to the printing stage.

Re: Discord - you can ignore discord entirely and just keep up on the main thread there, or via DMs with builders. Otherwise, you're going to miss out on updates, and any interactions w/questions are gonna be slower.

Re: bed heater: hell yeah. I've got a 180mm, 300W bed and OMG is it nice to get o printing temp with both the extruder and the bed, within 2 minutes or so. The chamber gets up to temp (50-55) pretty quickly too, even without a full Nevermore or bed fan setup to circulate air.

I'm at 250+ hrs on mine, still going strong, FWIW. It's effectively the only printer I've used in the last year.
 
Am I able to change the bed size to 200x200 with only modifying the extrusion lengths? Would it be ok with the 1515s and nema 14s?
 

Dueling Zero is a Dual Gantry V0 mod.​


Two extruders, no compromises. Kinda like an IDEX... but rarer, and more interesting, if you're into the "outside lands" of Voron mods.

Since the original release livestream this year on the DoomCube Discord, I've added a few things, and I figured this thread would be a way to share some of those updates that haven't made their way to GitHub yet, because I don't share things broadly until I trust that they'll work for you out-of-the-box. Read to the end for a small announcement, too...

Anyway, time to put this printer to work!

(1) New enclosure added, based on ZeroPanels v3!
Take a look, as this video walks through the new (unreleased) panels and design history:


(2) Internal spool holders!​

Yes, this V0 fits two internal spools, with no loss of travel. 🤷‍♂️

The custom design uses flexure-loaded 608 top bearings with custom-fit plastic rollers on top, with 2x 608 bearings on the bottom. Should double as a convenient filament dryer, though with ABS as the main material here, that's not a big deal. But in the future, nylons and others could be interesting.

View attachment 1217

(3) ZeroFilter added!

It's VHBed to the bottom for now, until I can select and print a larger rear-of-enclosure design. Sacrifices a tiny bit of Z, but the Z is completely unoptimized anyway, so no biggie.
View attachment 1216

(4) PA tuned using Ellis' new Pattern method!​

After these changes, I did a PA tune in 6m, using Ellis' latest pattern generator. If you haven't seen it yet - check it out! It's awesome. So much better than the prior method of printing a box and measuring.

View attachment 1218

The results: :chefkiss​

The first ABS print worked out nicely, using known-good V0 profiles. Inland matte gray hides all sins (VFAs, ringing... it's like the vantablack of gray), so I'm kinda cheating here, but next up will be KVP MSIL, which is the opposite: it reveals all flaws.

View attachment 1219

There's plenty of additional stuff before this can be considered done. For example, the bottom board is foam, so that's probably the next-most-important item, to switch out to ABS.

And I want to do a complete change-out of the electronics if I'm going to do that, as well as return to the software and auto-tuning side.

But I'm excited for at least two reasons:
- "a larger V0" - basically, this is "just" a Tri-Zero Plus50 when you use one extruder, with a roughly ~170x170 square build volume - means I can in theory do full plates overnight, as well as slightly longer parts that just couldn't be done on a 120 bed like the others I have.
- there's likely to be another D0 on the horizon soon, and it's not my build. Stay tuned!

Stay tuned... I'll try to keep this updated with major improvements. Feel free to use this thread for questions and comments, too, especially once you've looked through the enormous amount of loving-crafted documentation on the GitHub, including a full design walkthough. I appreciate any motivators here, as this thing alternates between 'work' and 'intensely rewarding' in my mind.
hey there! has anyone modded this to use 2020 extrusions instead?? im new to the forums, and just joined the discord!
 
Hey,
I have built a duelingZero and modified the whole z-bed holding assembly, if there is interest, i would publish it on github.
I have also changed the Z-endstop and other stuff, icluding an electronics bay at the back.
Greetings,
Phil
did you mod it for 1515 or 2020 extrusions? pretty interesting either way!
 
Just found your link in discord. Love the internal spool holder. I was planning on doing them exactly like this (i already measured it in cad and realized this could work lol).
You mind sharing the stepfile? Wouldn't this be perfect to test 3D-printed bearings instead of 608? I don't have 6x608 laying around anyway.

There are a couple of designs for 3d printed bearings available already in the open source space.
I'm working on a spool holder, don't try and print 608 bearings. A better design is to print a really huge diameter bearing with an outside diameter to match the spool. I have a bag of 6mm steel balls but I think 10mm balls would work better. If you have steel to work with them make the bearing small and press it into a the center of a plastic disk. Put if you are printing everything pllace the balls around the outside of the disk.
 
did you mod it for 1515 or 2020 extrusions? pretty interesting either way!
I released the more flexible 1515/2020/3030 design last year - it's parametric to handle different rail and bearing sizes, too.


There are a few built, or being built, and the action is on the DoomCube discord.
 
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