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Question Months of rippling/VFA/ringing artifacts

TaffoFox

Member
Printer Model
Trident 250
Extruder Type
Clockwork 2
Cooling Type
Stealthburner
Hi all.

I am posting this here instead of slice/print help, as I believe this is more of a mechanical issue at this point.

I finished my Trident 250 build recently, and I would love to get it to be printing more parts in ABS, however I cannot get nice printing results. The walls constantly have some form of artifacts on it, either wavy or rippling, and makes prints look horrible. I am still using my Switchwire at the moment which can push higher accelerations at better quality.

What my prints look like:

As can be seen, I get inconsistent rippling, ringing and "VFA like" artifacts (I'm unsure whether it is actually VFA related or not). Rippling seems to be worse at angles, where one stepper is doing all the work. These prints were done at 2000mm/s^2 acceleration with MZV input shaper enabled. I believe SCV was 5 and printing speed at 100mm/s.

Things I have tried, but has not helped my issues.
  • Replaced idlers and pulleys for Gates genuine, using the BOM bearings and belts.
  • Replaced linear rails on the motion system. Using another set of LDO rails with good tolerances. They are greased well.
  • Replaced extruder 3 times. I have tried an LGX lite and 2x CW2s with high quality gears. Have tried with different amounts of backlash to ensure it wasn't too tight.
  • Relocated printer, tried different types of floors.
  • Changed multiple printer settings, such as SCV, IS, microsteps, stepper driver specific settings, etc.
  • Changed multiple gcode settings, like speed, acceleration, pressure advance, flow rate, etc. Changing speeds just changes how the artifacts look, but don't go away.
  • Tried multiple belt tensions, making sure it is equal every time.
  • Tried many filament types, including PLA with panels off.
  • Rebuilt motion system entirely, 3-4 times. Including checking for squareness, which was fine
  • Tried multiple devices for measuring resonances, such as an onboard CAN adxl and a dedicated adxl mounted to the toolhead.
  • Checking to make sure every single bolt was tight and had not loosened with the initial heat cycles.
  • Putting the printer through 100h+ of use despite mediocre results, hoping to "break it in".
I would appreciate any help. I'm trying to make this Trident build as good as I know it can be, especially after having thrown so many hours and lots of money at it. It still seem to won't be normal! 😅
Not sure what has gone so wrong. I have a janky Switchwire which prints miles better at even faster speeds!

I have used help tickets, however we have not found a resolution for my problems. I hope that in posting it here, we can have an open discussion where everyone can see what is being tried, and what has been tried so far. Perhaps it can even be used as an example to help other people with similar issues.

Thanks in advance 😀
 

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I went through some of this and can relate to some of your feelings. Stick to it, you'll get it and learn a lot along the way! I can't specifically say what cleared it up for me, but it was some convergence of print temp/speed/cooling, replacing CW2 with genuine BondTech gears, CW2 filament tension, replaced X rail. I did a LOT of experimenting with the models from the Inconsistent Extrusion Test and some other vase mode prints I made, trying to isolate X/Y/A/B motion artifacts. Good luck!
 
Hi all.

I am posting this here instead of slice/print help, as I believe this is more of a mechanical issue at this point.

I finished my Trident 250 build recently, and I would love to get it to be printing more parts in ABS, however I cannot get nice printing results. The walls constantly have some form of artifacts on it, either wavy or rippling, and makes prints look horrible. I am still using my Switchwire at the moment which can push higher accelerations at better quality.

What my prints look like:

As can be seen, I get inconsistent rippling, ringing and "VFA like" artifacts (I'm unsure whether it is actually VFA related or not). Rippling seems to be worse at angles, where one stepper is doing all the work. These prints were done at 2000mm/s^2 acceleration with MZV input shaper enabled. I believe SCV was 5 and printing speed at 100mm/s.

Things I have tried, but has not helped my issues.
  • Replaced idlers and pulleys for Gates genuine, using the BOM bearings and belts.
  • Replaced linear rails on the motion system. Using another set of LDO rails with good tolerances. They are greased well.
  • Replaced extruder 3 times. I have tried an LGX lite and 2x CW2s with high quality gears. Have tried with different amounts of backlash to ensure it wasn't too tight.
  • Relocated printer, tried different types of floors.
  • Changed multiple printer settings, such as SCV, IS, microsteps, stepper driver specific settings, etc.
  • Changed multiple gcode settings, like speed, acceleration, pressure advance, flow rate, etc. Changing speeds just changes how the artifacts look, but don't go away.
  • Tried multiple belt tensions, making sure it is equal every time.
  • Tried many filament types, including PLA with panels off.
  • Rebuilt motion system entirely, 3-4 times. Including checking for squareness, which was fine
  • Tried multiple devices for measuring resonances, such as an onboard CAN adxl and a dedicated adxl mounted to the toolhead.
  • Checking to make sure every single bolt was tight and had not loosened with the initial heat cycles.
  • Putting the printer through 100h+ of use despite mediocre results, hoping to "break it in".
I would appreciate any help. I'm trying to make this Trident build as good as I know it can be, especially after having thrown so many hours and lots of money at it. It still seem to won't be normal! 😅
Not sure what has gone so wrong. I have a janky Switchwire which prints miles better at even faster speeds!

I have used help tickets, however we have not found a resolution for my problems. I hope that in posting it here, we can have an open discussion where everyone can see what is being tried, and what has been tried so far. Perhaps it can even be used as an example to help other people with similar issues.

Thanks in advance 😀
If you print a x y z test cube, does it show the problem on all surfaces, or is one worse?

I had a like issue once that I worked on a long time to figure it out. It ended up being a bad bearing in the stepper motor. Replacing the bearing corrected it.
 
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If you print a x y z test cube, does it show the problem on all surfaces, or is one worse?

I had a like issue once that I worked on a long time to figure it out. It ended up being a bad bearing in the stepper motor. Replacing the bearing corrected it.
It seems to be best on left/right/back/forward walls, however ringing remains. It tends to get worse on 45 degree angles. How can I check for stepper motor bearings?
 
I went through some of this and can relate to some of your feelings. Stick to it, you'll get it and learn a lot along the way! I can't specifically say what cleared it up for me, but it was some convergence of print temp/speed/cooling, replacing CW2 with genuine BondTech gears, CW2 filament tension, replaced X rail. I did a LOT of experimenting with the models from the Inconsistent Extrusion Test and some other vase mode prints I made, trying to isolate X/Y/A/B motion artifacts. Good luck!
Thank you. Will try this
 
Hey TaffoFox. I'm pretty new at this so this is more of a question than an answer. It appears to me that all of your corners are "over extruded", they "bulge out". Not sure if you noticed that. I think it's called something different in Klipper but have you checked or tuned the "linear advance"? Not sure if this effects the pattern on the side walls or not. Again, more a question than an answer.
 
Two things I did not see on your list of trouble shooting was new trying a new nozzle, and trying a different Slicer?
Man, I feel you. When issues that you can't pinpoint come up its mentally straining.
 
Hey TaffoFox. I'm pretty new at this so this is more of a question than an answer. It appears to me that all of your corners are "over extruded", they "bulge out". Not sure if you noticed that. I think it's called something different in Klipper but have you checked or tuned the "linear advance"? Not sure if this effects the pattern on the side walls or not. Again, more a question than an answer.
It's "pressure advance" in klipper. You're right that PA can solve bulging corners, but it won't generate artifacts like OP is showing, and that should be solved before going into PA or Input Shaping tuning.
 
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You ever figure it out?
What motors are you using? do you have a test indicator to check motor shaft runout? Did you use actual shims instead of washers on the pulleys and idlers? It looks like some mechanical component isn't constrained like it should be, bad idler bearings or a missed spacer could hurt. Ive seen peoples idler bearings die. And ldo rails arent the end of the road, the ldo rails I got for my v0 had .0008" clearance, so on the x it was causing all sorts of uneven artifacts. I know a little black magic so I reworked them and now they have been fine, but rails that bind or are too loose cause odd looking problems. I have a suspicion that these cheap rails kinda depend on not being aligned too well so the slop is taken up by the rest of the machine deforming,
 
Same problem on Rat-Rig. They didn't find the solution.

 
I was seeing the same artifacts on my Mini Stealth Burner with CW2 until I switched to the Galileo 2 Extruder. The swirly ripples are caused by variances in the dual drive gears meshing. The issue is also exaggerated if you are closer to the max flow rate that your hotend can push. I have a Enderwire with stock CW2 and lower flow hot end that exhibit the problem now as well.
Here are a few Videos describing the issue.

 
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So has the problem been resolved since the original post?
I changed to an orbiter v2.0 with revo hotend and I tried pushing it near its limit and now I suddenly have the problem aswell, even when I reduced accel and speed again. Even at 100 mm/s in the slicer, obviously never hitting that far in smaller prints, it now shows these ripples. It never used to and before I did the shuriken overhang test it also never did it. I think I set it all back with regards to accel and speeds, but it now stays. Very annoying problem. If it is the dual gearing I might actually try grinding one gear off so it isn’t dual gear anymore, but like to know more before doing that.
The artifacts seem to be gone, or at least so light it is hardly visible, at speeds below 60mm/s
 

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So I experimented and found that 10 degrees more hotend temp and much reduced cooling has a positive effect.
 

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