VORON TOWER

[porcomaster]

Hello guys, i have 4040 profiles with me and i always wanted to build a voron, after so much discussion, and so many people telling me, that it would be feasible, possible or to hard, i just decided to do this whole project on fusion 360, before going to the real life project, and i finally finished, at first i thought it would be just changing 2 files, because i was just changing the frame, how wrong was i, i had to change a total of 10 files, and their mirrors counter parts, i had to change the way of the rail would connect into the frame, and i changed the z rail from mgn9 to mgn12.

while my dream would be a 500mm^3 printer, my first one will be a 350x350x350, with the gantry with 2020.

everything else should be equal as a normal voron.

the whole project is parametric, that means that you can download the file and change the build volume to 700x700x700 or 250x250x250.

before i start doing this crazy build i would like to ask the community, anyone, to look into the files, and ideas, i had on this project, and any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Github page:

https://github.com/PorcoMaster/VoronTower

 

[Dave32]

Can you explain your motivation behind doing this as the tower?

I think you will find that caster wheels, with a moving mass so high up, is going to be a nightmare. The machine will literally walk itself across the room if you aren't careful.

Structurally, I think you might be better off with the vertical extrusions going clear through, instead of being in three separate sections. That would also avoid stack-ups of length errors. But you would hate yourself wiring it if it wasn't modular.

The tower seems to also be a bit of a missed opportunity. If the lower cross pieces were down by the wheels, then you could install a shelf and additional doors and use that area for storage. The same goes for the top - it would make a useful storage space if additional bracing was made for a solid floor.

You would also want to add some kind of provision for leveling. Floors are quite often not perfect, but three points define a plane, so at least one foot would need some adjustability. If this isn't done, or you don't shim it under the wheel, then the frame will be inclined to settle - putting a twist across the whole machine.

 

[Dave32]

Oh, and also, if you have all of this space and a tall structure anyway... you might as well make the Z axis taller. It's only a couple bucks more to step up to 400, 450, 500, or 550 linear rails.

 

[porcomaster]

Oh, and also, if you have all of this space and a tall structure anyway... you might as well make the Z axis taller. It's only a couple bucks more to step up to 400, 450, 500, or 550 linear rails.

Hey man first of all thanks for answering i will answer your question separately

>Can you explain your motivation behind doing this as the tower?

i think this is the one hardest to answer, at first i want to re utilize the 4040 profiles that i have, i gave up on that decided to do an enclosure for my cr-10s pro, then i saw that i would need to do ton of work, and would not make a reliable printer, then i decided to see if it would be possible to do a voron 500x500x500, then i gave up on that as i am not sure how much more motor and which type of rails i should use, i almost decided for mgn20 for the sides, as it would fit perfectly, i am glad that i choose mgn12, as this profile has a guide of 10.2 mm, and the mgn12 is exaclty 10mm, so it will fit nicely on the Z profiles. anyway, i decided to do it, because i wanted a printer that was easily movable, with a better structure, so i wish to get a bit better speeds even, if i may lose some because of the casters. so yeah this answer is not clear, maybe because i can haha

>I think you will find that caster wheels, with a moving mass so high up, is going to be a nightmare. The machine will literally walk itself across the room if you aren't careful.

i definitely agree with you on that, my idea is to attach it to an wall in some way, or another machine that is also on 4040, but this attachment would be easily removed, so i could move to another place or even make it easier to make fixes, like move it a little bit and i have access to all sides.

>Structurally, I think you might be better off with the vertical extrusions going clear through, instead of being in three separate sections. That would also avoid stack-ups of length errors. But you would hate yourself wiring it if it wasn't modular.

i thought in doing that it would be possible as the bars i have access to have 3 meters, however, i did help my friend build a few of these, and this was the easier way to build then and they are quite stable, i put like double of 90 degree corners on this project that i had on others here, so i am almost sure it will be stable enough.

>The tower seems to also be a bit of a missed opportunity. If the lower cross pieces were down by the wheels, then you could install a shelf and additional doors and use that area for storage. The same goes for the top - it would make a useful storage space if additional bracing was made for a solid floor.

the project is completely parametric, i just need to change a number from 200, to 40, and the lower section will be together with the wheels, and yes, the idea later on is too have the under part to become a cabinet or a dry section for keeping filaments and/or tools. i just decided on 600 mm of high because with experience is a nice high, it would be possible to do 2 and maybe 3 vorons too, but i don't think they fighting each other over frequency would be nice, the top part is for filament and maybe a enraged rabbit in the future.

>You would also want to add some kind of provision for leveling. Floors are quite often not perfect, but three points define a plane, so at least one foot would need some adjustability. If this isn't done, or you don't shim it under the wheel, then the frame will be inclined to settle - putting a twist across the whole machine.

the idea is to semi-fix it to something over time, but it's a problem that i am fighting over haha

>Oh, and also, if you have all of this space and a tall structure anyway... you might as well make the Z axis taller. It's only a couple bucks more to step up to 400, 450, 500, or 550 linear rails.

i thought in doing that, but sincerely for experience of design tens of projects, it's more often than not i miss horizontal space never vertical, most things on vertical are not strong anyway because the way the lines work, so i would be a happy man with 500x500x200 mm printer, i would be adding space to high that i personally never use.


also enjoying that you already answer me, while i am reviewing my work and starting the buy list, i saw that i made some mistake, and my build volume is 290x350x320, on a 350x350x350 expected build volume

it will be easy to fix as it's parametric, but what i should aim for for real nozzle movement, can i go to 400x400x400, or that would make my printer to slow, i want a faster printer and i believe that the 4040 might bring me some stability to try somethings faster, i want some leeway for mods like cleaning nozzles in the future but i don't want to lose on the speed, how much more movement space can i add to the printer ? 20-50 mm ?

 

[sanketss84]

looking forward to see how this shapes up.

 

[Dave32]

so i would be a happy man with 500x500x200 mm printer

Ok, one more question - If the wide format is your ultimate goal, why not build for that first?
You're going to be doing 90% of the same work to build it smaller, might as well build what you really want!

 

[porcomaster]

Ok, one more question - If the wide format is your ultimate goal, why not build for that first?
You're going to be doing 90% of the same work to build it smaller, might as well build what you really want!

my friend is one of the 100 early birds on the orangestorm giga, so we will receive a 1000x1000x1000 printer capable, hopefully until the end of april.

and in the end what i really want to achieve is speed, while i would love to have a voron capable machine of 500mmˆ3, there is not enough information on the community to help on this work, what extrusion profile to use on the gantry?, what rail size would be acceptable ?, what motor is necessary to achive good speed with the added mass ?, which acceleration can i expect ? do i use AC or DC on the bed heater ?, do i use 4 ender 3 bed, or one cr-10 s5 bed and so on ?

there are so many questions that are not answered, my main printer was always my cr-10s pro, and i know that 350x350 will be a little bigger than my already 320x320 and will lack on some stuff to me, but bigger and i will be able to use the orangestorm. i really want a 200mm/s + capable machine i am tired of the 40-80 mm/s machine.

and again, while i changed so many stuff on this project, it's still a voron 2.4 at heart, so it should be capable of hitting simillar speeds, i really expect to get better speed than a normal voron 2.4, because i will have a sturdier frame, but i will not be mad or sad if it hits just below it.

it will be easier to diagnostic problems with the community experience behind it, than an entirely new printer, what doens't change is that at some point i might try the 500x500, anyway i must be carefull with overrall size, a normal door is +-800mm wide and 1900 mm high, so i still want to pass a printer throw a door inside a company or house. and if i am not wrong a 350x350x350 and i getting close to 600x560x1650, i need to check i am far away from my computer until monday.

that means that a 500x500x500, would be closer to 800x710x1800mm so fairly close to a printer that will have a hard time being moved around a normal household.

edit: it would be also amazing if the project phoenix was already introduced, as i am sure i could really use it as the base of this project, with 2 extruders then it would be really nice, but in the end there is no timeline, as i am sure they want to introduce an amazing product to the community, so i will do my own stuff, maybe the next printer will be the phoenix tower .

 

[wirehead]

So, not talking you out of this, but I ended up building a really nice and very flexible shelving unit out of extrusion, and it's going to end up holding two Vorons and I have to say that, were I to have time and money and not have existing furniture, I'd probably build up a lot of extrusion furniture, LOL. So that's an alternate use for 4040 extrusions.

Integrated filament storage, especially if you went for a ERCF/TradRack/TapChanger where there's more than one spool, could be super-handy. Above the printer would be a good place?

And I guess the caster situation depends on how much moving you'd want? They've got casters with integrated brakes. You can provide chocks for the printer to keep it stationary. Or you could just put a pair of casters and a pair of adjustable feet. There's some stuff on the Misumi catalog that's designed to be movable yet rigid.

 

[porcomaster]

So, not talking you out of this, but I ended up building a really nice and very flexible shelving unit out of extrusion, and it's going to end up holding two Vorons and I have to say that, were I to have time and money and not have existing furniture, I'd probably build up a lot of extrusion furniture, LOL. So that's an alternate use for 4040 extrusions.

Integrated filament storage, especially if you went for a ERCF/TradRack/TapChanger where there's more than one spool, could be super-handy. Above the printer would be a good place?

And I guess the caster situation depends on how much moving you'd want? They've got casters with integrated brakes. You can provide chocks for the printer to keep it stationary. Or you could just put a pair of casters and a pair of adjustable feet. There's some stuff on the Misumi catalog that's designed to be movable yet rigid.

thank you for answering, and yeah i agree with you, it's fucking amazing for most furnitures, that is the objective really, my friend bough several 3 meter bar, and decided to do machines and stuff, and i help him ocasionally, that is why i gained some bars for myself.

the caster we have does actually have breaks, so it will help for sure, but i will analyse if the printer does move too much, if it does even with breaks i will probably fix it to some wall, something that is easily released, if i want to move it, while i do want to be able to move it around, the main reason for having on casters is maintenance and problem solving, way easier to just move to the middle of the room, and have access to all 4 sizes.

the idea is too have a ERCF on the top box, that why it's in there. at first will be just filament heater that i already have, but i always wanted multiple colors.

the idea to build the voron into the design and not just do a furniture and put the voron inside, is to actually enjoy the more rigid 4040, i am already using the 4040, there is not reason whatsoever to not integrate it into the project.

 

[Dave32]

The problem with the brakes on casters is that they typically only lock the wheels from rolling - not from swiveling. So even "locked", you would end up with a considerable amount of possible movement.

If I could recommend an alternate solution, it would be to use just two wheels, rigidly mounted as they are on woodworking tools.
The wheels are mounted on the BACK of two of the legs, such that they only contact the floor when the whole unit is lifted. This makes it easy to relocate, but solidly planted (with no wheels on the ground) when set back down.

 

[Dave32]

One more thing... (And don't take this the wrong way either, not trying to discourage a cool project, we just want to make sure you're going to get what you want in the end.)

If you build your custom unit here in a 350 size, you're going to have to buy basically all of the same parts as a v2.4 350 kit. You could self-source, but kits are cheaper than self sourcing... which means that you're going to end up buying the kit, and having a full 350-sized frame's worth of 2020 extrusions regardless. But then on top of that, you're going to be using different linear rails (to work with your 4040 extrusions), which means modifying some of the printed parts... and some other non-standard extrusion length customizations... and will end up with extra pieces since you substituted some of what came in the kit. In the end, you will have a printer that costs more, and takes more time and effort to assemble than a kit-standard 350, for the same approximate end result...

Another option would be to assemble a kit-standard 350 printer, and then build your 4040 tower as just a fancy shelving unit. The printer could then be attached to the tower for the rigidity benefits that that provides - but it could also be removed from the tower at any point if you ever wanted to - without having to disassemble the tower around it. That would make the assembly simpler, the overall cost would be lower, it would still use the extrusions you have, and you would have more flexibility for reconfiguration down the road.

 

[porcomaster]

The problem with the brakes on casters is that they typically only lock the wheels from rolling - not from swiveling. So even "locked", you would end up with a considerable amount of possible movement.

If I could recommend an alternate solution, it would be to use just two wheels, rigidly mounted as they are on woodworking tools.
The wheels are mounted on the BACK of two of the legs, such that they only contact the floor when the whole unit is lifted. This makes it easy to relocate, but solidly planted (with no wheels on the ground) when set back down.

Hey dave32, i really appreciate your response, on the casters, the caster i have in hand are dual lock, i can send you a picture if you are interested, it does lock wheels and swiveling at same time, however i will need to check if it does lock entirely at 0 degrees, or it does have a small swiveling of a few degrees that could make it enter in resonance with the machine, either way i intend to fix it something immovable, like a wall or another machine, and disconnect it when i need to move for maintenance or moving it out. but i really like your idea of having just two casters and 2 fixed rubber so it stays put at same place.

One more thing... (And don't take this the wrong way either, not trying to discourage a cool project, we just want to make sure you're going to get what you want in the end.)

If you build your custom unit here in a 350 size, you're going to have to buy basically all of the same parts as a v2.4 350 kit. You could self-source, but kits are cheaper than self sourcing... which means that you're going to end up buying the kit, and having a full 350-sized frame's worth of 2020 extrusions regardless. But then on top of that, you're going to be using different linear rails (to work with your 4040 extrusions), which means modifying some of the printed parts... and some other non-standard extrusion length customizations... and will end up with extra pieces since you substituted some of what came in the kit. In the end, you will have a printer that costs more, and takes more time and effort to assemble than a kit-standard 350, for the same approximate end result...

Another option would be to assemble a kit-standard 350 printer, and then build your 4040 tower as just a fancy shelving unit. The printer could then be attached to the tower for the rigidity benefits that that provides - but it could also be removed from the tower at any point if you ever wanted to - without having to disassemble the tower around it. That would make the assembly simpler, the overall cost would be lower, it would still use the extrusions you have, and you would have more flexibility for reconfiguration down the road.

if i were to buy i would need to buy a kit i would had to buy an LDO kit, that is about 1400 dollars, i didn't do the full buy list yet, but self resourcing with several kits on amazon, and i am getting close to 1000 dollars for same quality, so it would be close anyway, but at least i would have the cool project that i always wanted to try, and one in a world of a voron 2.4, i don't know how does the serial request would work thou haha.

and yes at first i thought in doing just a fancy shelving units, but seriously, how amazing would be the "first" one to do 4040 voron. if i am able to make it work, i might be able to later on even doing a huge voron, my whole project is parametric, to change it to any other measurements is as easy as just changing a few numbers, surely i would need to go for other motors and gantries profiles, but at same time would be amazing.

but yeah i really appreciate all your commentaries and advices, you are amazing.

 

[porcomaster]

Update: on the project file, i updated the build volume that was not quite right, and split into build_volume and build_offset, build volume will reflect exactly what is the size of the build volume, if you want the nozzle to be able to go outside bed for any reason whatsoever you should add build_offset, as standard it's an extra of 50 mm on X, 47 on y, and 20 on Z. also fixed several joints that were troublesome, and updated all door and panel clips, as i was not happy with then , i didn't delete the old files i just moved into the deprecated file, also made a video with an joint analysis, it's not perfect as i was lazy to just fix a few joints limits, but it's possible to be sure that the limits are correct.
also made a pdf file, or picture to help people understand the most common parameters.

i will add a buy list, later on, probably after finishing my buy list

 

[porcomaster]

update: 15 of april of 2024, a few more joints fixed, this fix are about the size of the gantry profiles, as they do have some work around on then i put up to 6 mm more or less. but you should not change more than 3 mm. if you do want to change change on gantry_x_front, gantry_x_back or gantry_y also changed the sizes of gantry and overral so all gantrys were on good sizes to be cut, on older one you would find sizes like 572 mm or 673, now i changed so it has easy to cut sizes ending in 0 or 5, ie. 570,475 and so on. also changed build_x_offset to 47 mm, build_y_offset to 50 mm and build_z_offset to 24 mm, also i will add my first buy list on a 350x350 mm build.