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Solved Auto Z-Calibration not working

Laserbea4k43

Laserbea4k43

Well-known member
Printer Model
Voron 2.4 350
Extruder Type
Clockwork 2
Cooling Type
Stealthburner
Hello,
After months of not using my printer, I've come back to it and discovered voron tap. I haven't been able to get any of my prints to stick to the bed, however.
Somewhere after the first few layers, a part gets caught on the nozzle and pulls the print from the bed.
My chamber is at about 40C+ and I print at 110 for the bed and 235 on the nozzle.
My fan speed is 55% after the first 2 layers (is that too early? should I slow my fan down?)

I've scrubbed my PEI sheet, cleaned it with alcohol and a clean microfiber towel.

These are my results when I change my switch offset:
Switch offset @ .48 | 01:19:42 // Z-CALIBRATION: ENDSTOP=0.007 NOZZLE=-0.025 SWITCH=6.035 PROBE=6.470 --> OFFSET=-0.070500
Switch offset @ .49 | 01:20:13 // Z-CALIBRATION: ENDSTOP=0.007 NOZZLE=-0.060 SWITCH=6.037 PROBE=6.487 --> OFFSET=-0.100500
Switch offset @ .47 | 01:25:08 // Z-CALIBRATION: ENDSTOP=0.007 NOZZLE=-0.030 SWITCH=6.080 PROBE=6.527 --> OFFSET=-0.053000
Switch offset @ .45 | 01:30:39 // Z-CALIBRATION: ENDSTOP=0.007 NOZZLE=-0.023 SWITCH=6.090 PROBE=6.542 --> OFFSET=-0.020500
Switch offset @ .43 | 01:37:35 // Z-CALIBRATION: ENDSTOP=0.007 NOZZLE=-0.025 SWITCH=6.085 PROBE=6.532 --> OFFSET=-0.008000
Click to expand...
I can't seem to consistently keep the result of the last change, .008000 and i've taken the offset down as far as .25 to see what would happen. It hasn't gotten any better.
Any advice?
Thanks.
 
I've used my IR thermometer and found that my bed is reporting 105C at the center, when set to 110. I've turned it up to 112 and I seem to be getting good adhesion on my test cube.
I'll report back once I build the Tap.
 
My Voron is now the second day "alive" and I can feel with you. The reliabale method currently working for me is to calibrate the Z-Offset manually after a restart (currently with just a sheet of paper, but probably will order a proper instrument).

Therefore I'm currently also thinking about moving away from the inductive probe.
 
Can you just manually adjust the offset for now while printing the tap parts? Hopfully the upgrade will solve this exact issue. I've been having trouble with printing the tap parts too, nozzle dragging but not enough to knock off the print. The major problem was that the carriage seating surfaces are just a total mess. Tonight I solved it though, I got super aggressive in reducing the flow rate and it all came right, close to perfect surfaces again. I think the roll of filament I bought to print these parts is just a terrible one, could yours have soaked up moisture in its down time?. Is the print warping and lifting off the bed before the nozzle dislodges it? If it is then maybe your fan setting is too high. Personally I've gotten away with no part fan unless there are overhangs or melty messes in my prints, and if needed I've only run 30 - 40%.
 
Last edited:
Christian said:
My Voron is now the second day "alive" and I can feel with you. The reliabale method currently working for me is to calibrate the Z-Offset manually after a restart (currently with just a sheet of paper, but probably will order a proper instrument).

Therefore I'm currently also thinking about moving away from the inductive probe.
Click to expand...
The reference to "switch offset" implies @Laserbea4k43 is using a klicky probe mod, it's well worth checking out! Combined with auto_z when working correctly first layers are a breeze! The sheet of paper method is good and reliable too, don't let it get to you, everyone goes through it.
 
My guess is you are getting warping during the print. 55 is way to high speed for the fan for me. I don't start my fan until layer 20 and only set 20% up to 30% depending on the print.
Also you can look into adaptive bed mesh. It will mesh the only the area you are printing in just before the start of the print.
Long heat soaking may help as well.
 
Christian said:
My Voron is now the second day "alive" and I can feel with you. The reliabale method currently working for me is to calibrate the Z-Offset manually after a restart (currently with just a sheet of paper, but probably will order a proper instrument).

Therefore I'm currently also thinking about moving away from the inductive probe.
Click to expand...

Gratz on your Voron! Which model did you make?
The inductive probe is so sci-fi and awesome. It's too bad I couldn't get much accuracy out of it... I mean, when it worked it worked, and great. but it constantly needed readjustment for me. Far less than my setup now. I forgot to mention that I'm using a klicky probe.

Glengus said:
Can you just manually adjust the offset for now while printing the tap parts? Hopfully the upgrade will solve this exact issue. I've been having trouble with printing the tap parts too, nozzle dragging but not enough to knock off the print. The major problem was that the carriage seating surfaces are just a total mess. Tonight I solved it though, I got super aggressive in reducing the flow rate and it all came right, close to perfect surfaces again. I think the roll of filament I bought to print these parts is just a terrible one, could yours have soaked up moisture in its down time?. Is the print warping and lifting off the bed before the nozzle dislodges it? If it is then maybe your fan setting is too high. Personally I've gotten away with no part fan unless there are overhangs or melty messes in my prints, and if needed I've only run 30 - 40%.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same about manual adjustments, but my issue seems to happen at the first layer and the adjustments don't seem to be queued on the stack quick enough (multi-threaded klipper would be awesome!!).
I forgot to mention that I dropped my flow rate from 95 to 93% in my update. Also dropped the fan from 50% to 15% not sure why I had the setting in my slicer up so high... didn't notice it until hours into the problem though...

Glengus said:
The reference to "switch offset" implies @Laserbea4k43 is using a klicky probe mod, it's well worth checking out! Combined with auto_z when working correctly first layers are a breeze! The sheet of paper method is good and reliable too, don't let it get to you, everyone goes through it.
Click to expand...
YES! I forgot to mention this. It's great.

NoGuru said:
My guess is you are getting warping during the print. 55 is way to high speed for the fan for me. I don't start my fan until layer 20 and only set 20% up to 30% depending on the print.
Also you can look into adaptive bed mesh. It will mesh the only the area you are printing in just before the start of the print.
Long heat soaking may help as well.
Click to expand...
Yep! My Test Cube was an immediate success after dropping the fan speed and the heatsoak that resulted from the initial 1 hour plus the several hours that I had been testing, I'd imagine.
I'm considering dropping the fan even lower, given my attempt to print the Tap failed.
Adaptive Bed Mesh! Sweet! I was daydreaming about writing a script to do just that while I was waiting for the first layer of my last attempt to get started! I'll look that up while I'm heatsoaking now.

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Reporting back soon!
:)
 
Laserbea4k43 said:
Gratz on your Voron! Which model did you make?
The inductive probe is so sci-fi and awesome. It's too bad I couldn't get much accuracy out of it... I mean, when it worked it worked, and great. but it constantly needed readjustment for me. Far less than my setup now. I forgot to mention that I'm using a klicky probe.


I was thinking the same about manual adjustments, but my issue seems to happen at the first layer and the adjustments don't seem to be queued on the stack quick enough (multi-threaded klipper would be awesome!!).
I forgot to mention that I dropped my flow rate from 95 to 93% in my update. Also dropped the fan from 50% to 15% not sure why I had the setting in my slicer up so high... didn't notice it until hours into the problem though...


YES! I forgot to mention this. It's great.


Yep! My Test Cube was an immediate success after dropping the fan speed and the heatsoak that resulted from the initial 1 hour plus the several hours that I had been testing, I'd imagine.
I'm considering dropping the fan even lower, given my attempt to print the Tap failed.
Adaptive Bed Mesh! Sweet! I was daydreaming about writing a script to do just that while I was waiting for the first layer of my last attempt to get started! I'll look that up while I'm heatsoaking now.

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Reporting back soon!
:)
Click to expand...
Probably setting then klicky on myMod-List xD I built a V2.4 (BuildLog: https://forum.vorondesign.com/threads/250x250-no-kit-self-sourced-voron-2-4.204/)
 
Update:
I've tried after a very long heatsoak and the first layer just isn't sticking. I've turned my nozzle up to 250, hoping that would help, but probably not, due to the sudden change in temperature(?) as it lifts off of the bed just the same. Not really sure what to do.
 
Can you include a huge skirt via slicer and move it up or down while it's printing that? Not quite so low that it won't push plastic, but not too much above where it starts flowing? I've done that before, it feels really silly to have a skirt do 20 laps, but let's you tinker with z.
 
Laserbea4k43 said:
Update:
I've tried after a very long heatsoak and the first layer just isn't sticking. I've turned my nozzle up to 250, hoping that would help, but probably not, due to the sudden change in temperature(?) as it lifts off of the bed just the same. Not really sure what to do.
Click to expand...
Well that is a bummer. Try this, heat soak for 30-60 minutes, no fan, and reduce speed by 50%
What slicer are you using?
1671620345732.png
 
Glengus said:
Can you include a huge skirt via slicer and move it up or down while it's printing that? Not quite so low that it won't push plastic, but not too much above where it starts flowing? I've done that before, it feels really silly to have a skirt do 20 laps, but let's you tinker with z.
Click to expand...

NoGuru said:
Well that is a bummer. Try this, heat soak for 30-60 minutes, no fan, and reduce speed by 50%
What slicer are you using?
View attachment 1094
Click to expand...

I've managed to get prints to work if I print one object at a time (that new exclude object feature has saved a couple of prints. I wouldn't have been able to use it if I hadn't been made aware of the adaptive bed mesh. Thanks!)
Most of my lifting starts when I'm making the skirt. My slicer (I'm using CURA for now) is set to make 3 turns around the print before it starts. When the 2nd skirt line touches the first, the first skirt line lifts from the bed in some areas.
I think I'll try my next print at 50% speed. Either that or just continue to print 1 by 1 until everything. is complete. Would probably be faster the way it is now, but I guess it wouldn't solve my issues.
 
https://imgur.com/FDa0avK

bmWoCip.jpg
 
1) You should definitely dry your filament just to eliminate that as a variable. I’ve seen a similar phenomenon with wet PLA+, though, I must admit, never with ABS.
2) Where did you get that PEI? It “looks” good, but I want to make sure that it’s actually PEI and not something else.
3) You said that you scrubbed the PEI. That is a great start but doesn’t always renew the surface. If you have some VERY fine sandpaper (>300 grit), I would recommend a good once-over with that.
4) When I clean my PEI sheets, I use Dawn dish soap and water ONLY. I don’t rinse with IPA. To dry, use a paper towel, and don’t touch the surface. It may sound weird, but I don’t always trust fabric that has been through the laundry. Especially if you use fabric softener.
 
NoGuru said:
How old is the filament? Might help to dry it.
Click to expand...
Not formally no. I've had that filament for at least 6 months. It sits in a cabinet filled with my collected silica packets.
Dave said:
1) You should definitely dry your filament just to eliminate that as a variable. I’ve seen a similar phenomenon with wet PLA+, though, I must admit, never with ABS.
2) Where did you get that PEI? It “looks” good, but I want to make sure that it’s actually PEI and not something else.
3) You said that you scrubbed the PEI. That is a great start but doesn’t always renew the surface. If you have some VERY fine sandpaper (>300 grit), I would recommend a good once-over with that.
4) When I clean my PEI sheets, I use Dawn dish soap and water ONLY. I don’t rinse with IPA. To dry, use a paper towel, and don’t touch the surface. It may sound weird, but I don’t always trust fabric that has been through the laundry. Especially if you use fabric softener.
Click to expand...
  1. I'll have to google techniques to dry it
  2. Amazon. It worked perfectly before, I took a few months break from printing and now i'm having problems.
  3. I do need to go to the hardware store, I'll pick some up.
  4. Good point. I'll try that. Which do you think is best, paper towels or "shop towels" (the blue, fabric-like paper towels)?
 
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