Question Any advantage of using a kinematic bed on a new V2.4 build?

[dmt]

I'm starting a new 2.4 build (self sourcing) and I have been wondering whether I should use the standard ridgit mounted bed design or go with the kinematic bed mount mod. I sourced a 10mm 6082 cast aluminium plate that I skimmed perfectly flat and I'm not sure how well it will keep its form if it's bolted down ridgitly. Any advice if a kinematic bed will add any benefit to reduce the risk of bed deformation? Any pro's/con's to consider for a kinematic bed mount?

 

[dunar]

The bed is not rigidly mounted in the stock configuration for a V2 either. Only one of the bolts is tightened to secure the bed, the others are intended to be loose. The assembly manual calls this out on page 59.

 

[dmt]

The bed is not rigidly mounted in the stock configuration for a V2 either. Only one of the bolts is tightened to secure the bed, the others are intended to be loose. The assembly manual calls this out on page 59.

Of course! Thanks. RTFM x n

 

[gth44]

The bed is not rigidly mounted in the stock configuration for a V2 either. Only one of the bolts is tightened to secure the bed, the others are intended to be loose. The assembly manual calls this out on page 59.

Damn. I did this wrong for 2 years now.
Good point. Thanks for mentioning this here.

 

[cross2010]

I'm using the kinematic bed setup on my V2.4 build. The biggest advantage (from what I've read) is the ability to heat up the bed faster. By default, you set the bed power to around 60%. I've been running mine at 75% for a while now and haven't had any issues. From what I've heard, some people have cranked the power up even more. I'm still a bit sketchy about doing that myself.

This is definitely one of the "optional upgrades" that you don't need when you're building your first printer.

 

[biiiink]

I'm using the kinematic bed setup on my V2.4 build. The biggest advantage (from what I've read) is the ability to heat up the bed faster. By default, you set the bed power to around 60%. I've been running mine at 75% for a while now and haven't had any issues. From what I've heard, some people have cranked the power up even more. I'm still a bit sketchy about doing that myself.

This is definitely one of the "optional upgrades" that you don't need when you're building your first printer.

I've never heard this before. How does the kinematic bed allow for faster bed heating?

 

[egar]

I've never heard this before. How does the kinematic bed allow for faster bed heating?

When you heat the bed, it expands. If multiple fixed points exist in your bed mount, the expansion will result in the bed warping. Warping can be minimized by heating slowly and allowing the frame and bed to warm up together. There will still be warping, but hopefully less. Kinematics only fix one point (or no points with magnetic mounts) and allow the bed expansion to happen unconstrained and hopefully little to no warping.

I'm using the Mandala Rose Works kinematics kit with great success. I'm currently running bed power at 80% and may go higher with some more testing.

 

[franknitty69]

When you heat the bed, it expands. If multiple fixed points exist in your bed mount, the expansion will result in the bed warping. Warping can be minimized by heating slowly and allowing the frame and bed to warm up together. There will still be warping, but hopefully less. Kinematics only fix one point (or no points with magnetic mounts) and allow the bed expansion to happen unconstrained and hopefully little to no warping.

I'm using the Mandala Rose Works kinematics kit with great success. I'm currently running bed power at 80% and may go higher with some more testing.

are you using the Madela RW bed or another bed with the kinematics kit? I'm thinking of splurging and getting both.

 

[egar]

are you using the Madela RW bed or another bed

Yes, I'm using their plain aluminum bed, not the magnetic one. I had the bed in use before they came out with their kinematics kit, but upgraded once it was available.

 

[LoadMaster7]

When I first read this thread, before I had my new 2.4 R2 completed, it had me worried about bed leveling. Following the instructions, with the one bolt tight and the others run down and backed off 3/4 turn, my bed is perfectly flat. I have not ran any other calibration other then the 4 corner and z_endstop_calibrate and I am getting perfect first layers. This is a stock build. Is this not the norm for the Voron 2.4 R2?

 

[biiiink]

When you heat the bed, it expands. If multiple fixed points exist in your bed mount, the expansion will result in the bed warping. Warping can be minimized by heating slowly and allowing the frame and bed to warm up together. There will still be warping, but hopefully less. Kinematics only fix one point (or no points with magnetic mounts) and allow the bed expansion to happen unconstrained and hopefully little to no warping.

I'm using the Mandala Rose Works kinematics kit with great success. I'm currently running bed power at 80% and may go higher with some more testing.

Excellent explanation! Thanks. I have the kinematic bed mount from Whoppingpochard and im very happy with it.

 

[Dave]

For context, I have been using a kinematic mount on my 2.4 since WhoppingPochard sent around a bunch of beta versions of his mounts. The data from my 2.4 actually is up on the GitHub page for the kinematic mounts as an example of when the mounts didn’t do anything for helping to keep a bed flat! So I can say with a high degree of personal knowledge that the kinematic mounts do not improve performance in all instances! All of the theoretical discussions about receiving stress, etc, were the reasons that folks originally looked into kinematic mounts, but the truth is that the stock bed mounting system for the 2.4 is perfectly fine! Most people will not notice any practical improvement if they get a kinematic mount on their printer. That’s the simple fact supported by lots of data. You can absolutely measure the effect of the kinematic mount, and in most circumstances, it’s not significant enough to be noticeable in prints. (Unlike the rail backers and frame expansion compensation macros that can absolutely make a noticeable impact on print quality.)

That being said, I have a kinematic mount on my 2.4/350, and I’m going to put one on the 2.4/300 in going to be building soon. Why? Not for any performance reasons, but because it’s absurdly convenient to facilitate taking your bed off and putting it back on with minimal effort. And because they are super cool! But please don’t think that you should buy one because of print quality improvement. It MAY help, but the real reason to get one is because it’s neat and fun.

 

[Dave]

Oh, and for what’s it’s worth, a properly stress relieved bed won’t care if you heat at maximum power with a 750W heater pad.

 

[Dave]

When I first read this thread, before I had my new 2.4 R2 completed, it had me worried about bed leveling. Following the instructions, with the one bolt tight and the others run down and backed off 3/4 turn, my bed is perfectly flat. I have not ran any other calibration other then the 4 corner and z_endstop_calibrate and I am getting perfect first layers. This is a stock build. Is this not the norm for the Voron 2.4 R2?

That’s absolutely the norm. You are golden! Glad it’s working for you!

 

[Dave]

When you heat the bed, it expands. If multiple fixed points exist in your bed mount, the expansion will result in the bed warping. Warping can be minimized by heating slowly and allowing the frame and bed to warm up together. There will still be warping, but hopefully less. Kinematics only fix one point (or no points with magnetic mounts) and allow the bed expansion to happen unconstrained and hopefully little to no warping.

I'm using the Mandala Rose Works kinematics kit with great success. I'm currently running bed power at 80% and may go higher with some more testing.

Unless you are heating the bed with a blowtorch in one corner, you can send it full power with no problem. I have a 650 W heater and heat at full power with no issues on a 350mm bed. The heating pads we are using aren’t really capable of inducing a permanent bed warp by simply heating at 100% power.